# Straight Dope Fail on Fluoride **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537 "2010-09-30T00:00:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/21 "2010-09-30T16:22:56Z")
> [@maryi](#): > > Ironic that a website dedicated to fighting ignorance would be so rank with it. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Mr. Adams might also want to update his review on fluoride to include the recent warning issued by the FDA against giving fluoridated water to infants & children. The only thing I’ve found with a quick search on that subject from the FDA was a warning to DS Waters of America in 2009, which was involving fluoride health claims made by the aforementioned. [http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm190483.htm](http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm190483.htm) Please provide a citation or link to this warning by the FDA you mention, so I can evaluate it on **Cecil’s** behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/22 "2010-09-30T16:26:36Z")
I suspect few will take seriously an anti-fluoridation rant that includes a reference to the atomic bomb. > [@maryi](#): > > Mr. Adams might also want to update his review on fluoride to include the recent warning issued by the FDA against giving fluoridated water to infants & children. Mr. Adams will have a great deal of difficulty finding any such warning, because it does not exist. The only “warning” I know about is a statement that appears on toothpaste tubes advising parents to use only small amounts of fluoride-containing toothpaste when supervising tooth brushing by young children, since they’re more prone to swallowing it and could get spotting of tooth enamel (fluorosis) if they ingest large amounts. This could also affect infants who drink formula reconstituted with drinking water. The [American Dental Association](http://www.ada.org/1767.aspx) recognizes this and recommends breastfeeding and/or use of fluoride-free water in making formula to make sure that the child receives the _optimal_ amount of fluoride that protects teeth from cavities without causing tooth spotting. The A.D.A., C.D.C. and other knowledgeable sources continue to recognize the value and safety of fluoridated water in reducing cavities. We’re all exposed to some amount of fluoride whether or not our water is fluoridated. The anti-fluoridation crazies willfully ignore that whether a substance is a “toxin” depends on dose. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/23 "2010-09-30T17:05:20Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I rather be science’s bitch than religion’s whore. I laughed. IMnshO, great phrase, **outlierrn**! ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/24 "2010-09-30T17:13:13Z")
Back in the Dark Ages, when I was pregnant with my daughter, my physician prescribed fluoride pills for me to take so that the child would have healthy teeth. She’s thirty-eight, in stellar health and has never had a cavity. When she sees the dentist the staff marvel at her perfect teeth. She’s still a liittle peeved with me because she has two very slight discolored spots on her front ones. I consider it a small inconvience certainly outweighing having the drill used on a young person. Her grandfather, who grew up in Holland where the water is naturally fluoridated, never had a cavity in his eighty-nine years. Has it been used for unsavory purposes? Given the nature of humans, probably so. But it sure has produced nice teeth in my family. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/25 "2010-09-30T17:27:36Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Also, [look who is behind floridealert.org](http://americanhealthstudies.org/aboutus.html). The link to the fluoride and bomb connection paper is broken on that page, but I found the original paper at [http://www.fluoridealert.org/WN-414.htm](http://www.fluoridealert.org/WN-414.htm). That mentions studies done by the University of Rochester as part of the cover up. During the war I find Dale PP, McCauley HB. Oral conditions in workers chronically exposed to dilute and anhydrous hydrofluoric acid. United States Atomic Energy Commission University of Rochester, Nov 1944;MDDC-995: 1-8. There is a study by man mentioned, Harold Hodge, in the New England Journal of Medicine, Fluoridation of Public Water Supplies and Its Relation to Musculoskeltial Diseases by CLR Steinberg et al. - 1958. Not much of a cover up and not much of a study. The Flouride Toxicity Research Collaborative has an extensive bibliography of [studies](http://www.slweb.org/ftrcbibliography.html) but how biased the list is I can’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/26 "2010-09-30T18:44:20Z")
> [@maryi](#): > > Ironic that a website dedicated to fighting ignorance would be so rank with it. Regarding the Fluoride review - Perhaps Cecil Adams should read Christopher Bryson’s book - The Fluoride Deception (free on google books) which exposes newly declassified government documents outlining in no uncertain terms the very dirty truth about the history behind public water fluoridation & it’s implication in the production of the atomic bomb. Mr. Adams might also want to update his review on fluoride to include the recent warning issued by the FDA against giving fluoridated water to infants & children. He might also find it relevant to include World Health Organization data which demonstrates a decline in dental carries all over the world in countries irregardless of fluoridated water, salts or toothpastes. He might also find it educational to browse the archives of [www.fluoridealert.org](http://www.fluoridealert.org) and shit. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/27 "2010-09-30T20:00:42Z")
Just wanted to check out the thread and point out that, unsurprisingly, the OP has not been back to follow up the steaming load they dropped. -XT ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/28 "2010-09-30T20:42:03Z")
OP was likely just a shill with a search engine. though that is unimportant. it should be treated like an honest discussion for later readers that happen on the thread. subsequent truth is of great value to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/29 "2010-10-01T01:18:31Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I could see that, **outliern** , but since the conspiracy theory is by itself religion-neutral, I can also see why the chosen going-along term may have sounded out-of-place and jarring to the point of confusion to **dzero**. Fair enough, I just went with it because I thought it sounded cool. OTOH, upon futher reflection, I _do_ think that the cognitive biases and self fulfilling behavior of conspiracy theorists is consistent with a faith based outlook. If I gotta chose between that and being a slave to the limitations and vicissitudes of an empirical outlook, well, bend me over Carl Sagan. And shit. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/30 "2010-10-01T03:09:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I suspect few will take seriously an anti-fluoridation rant that includes **a reference to the atomic bomb**. As if the temptation to turn the thread into nonstop _Dr. Strangelove_ jokes weren’t bad enough to begin with… ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/31 "2010-10-06T21:05:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I have been battling Joseph Mercola for years in my own blog. He’s an all-purpose quack, someone with a false statement on anything and everything that believers can quote without bothering to do any of the heavy work of checking the science. > > I did a search for fluoride on [Quackwatch](http://www.quackwatch.org/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=fluoride&case=&whole=&lines=&errors=&age=&maxfiles=25&maxlines=20&maxchars=3000&filter=&cache=yes&rankby=DEFAULT) for some balance. Can you provide a link to your blog? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/32 "2010-10-06T23:03:11Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Her grandfather, who grew up in Holland where the water is naturally fluoridated, never had a cavity in his eighty-nine years. That doesn’t jive with my anecdote, given both my father and mother who were born and raised in Rotterdam (on the Rhine) had ALL their teeth removed due to cavities before I was born in 1950. I will say this. I was raised in Southern Ontario which flouridated water and never went to a dentist. It wasn’t until several years after moving into the north country when I was 25 that I developed cavities. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/33 "2010-10-07T00:21:00Z")
I had a great-great grandfather who grew up in an area where the water was totally free of fluorides. One day he was carried off by a bear and eaten. ☹ I just saw an amusing Google ad at the bottom of the thread, for a product called Glacial Blue Tooth Oil (you’re supposed to brush your teeth with it, not swab it into your ears). It’s advertised as an alternative to “toxic, fluoride-contaminated” toothpaste, containing among other things peppermint oil which supposedly is safe to swallow and soothing to the alimentary canal. Except that peppermint oil (apart from not being proven to be an effective cavity-fighter), like many essential oils is [toxic and even fatal in excessive dosage](http://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0401/p1027.html) and can cause a variety of nasty problems like acute renal failure, not to mention “allergic reactions, heartburn, perianal burning, blurred vision, nausea, and vomiting”. It should not be used internally in infants and young children because it can cause bronchospasm leading to respiratory arrest. I saw no warning whatsoever on the company website about keeping the product away from young children. I can just see the alties scoffing that peppermint oil is perfectly safe at a low dose. Funny, I thought their position on fluoride (and many other things) was that a toxin’s a toxin, regardless of the dosage. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/34 "2010-10-07T00:26:57Z")
> [@maryi](#): > > Ironic that a website dedicated to fighting ignorance would be so rank with it. Ironic that a poster would abandon the thread he started and never return to discuss the matter and/or face the music. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/35 "2010-10-07T11:20:37Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > > [@maryi](#): > > > > Ironic that a website dedicated to fighting ignorance would be so rank with it. > > Ironic that a poster would abandon the thread he started and never return to discuss the matter and/or face the music. ``` I assume because it's spam to generate hits to their site! ``` ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/36 "2010-10-07T17:57:26Z")
What is ironic is **Jackmannii** ’s post is about using peppermint oil for medical treatment and has no discussion of toxicity. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/37 "2010-10-07T18:03:39Z")
I guess my irony detector is overloaded. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/38 "2010-10-07T21:19:22Z")
I assumed from the way you provided that link that the link you were providing was supposed to be a cite that peppermint oil is toxic. But that is not the link you provided. Ergo my comment. I was purposefully abusing the word “irony” to fit in. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/39 "2010-10-07T21:38:50Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I assumed from the way you provided that link that the link you were providing was supposed to be a cite that peppermint oil is toxic. But that is not the link you provided. Ergo my comment. Eh? It says that. > [@](#): > > Contraindications, Adverse Effects, and Interactions > > Like many essential oils, peppermint oil can be toxic and even lethal at excessive dosages; it has been associated with interstitial nephritis and acute renal failure.17 It may have a choleretic effect and is contraindicated in patients with cholelithiasis or cholecystitis. Peppermint oil is relatively contraindicated in patients with hiatal hernia or significant gastroesophageal reflux disease, because its effect on the lower esophageal sphincter can lead to exacerbation of symptoms. > > Peppermint oil has been used to trigger menstruation and should be avoided during pregnancy. There are insufficient data to assess its safety during lactation. Peppermint oil should not be used internally or on or near the face in infants and young children because of its potential to cause bronchospasm, tongue spasms, and, possibly, respiratory arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537/40 "2010-10-07T22:57:29Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > …MUST resist obvious Dr. Strangelove reference… Not me; any opportunity to quote from _Dr. Strangelove_ is a good day: Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen, tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first… become… well, develop this theory? General Jack D. Ripper: Well, I, uh… I… I… first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love. Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm. General Jack D. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue… a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I… I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm. General Jack D. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh… women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh… I do not avoid women, Mandrake. Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No. General Jack D. Ripper: But I… I do deny them my essence. > [@Irishman](#): > > I misread that and was wondering what was wrong with Florida. Well, you don’t need fluoridation to explain that. Just the combination of unrelenting humidity, swarms of prehistoric-sized insects, a mostly transient population that consists primarily of New Jersey retirees, NASCAR fans, embittered third generation Cuban refugees, and college girls with low self-esteem would be enough. The fact that Disneyworld is there, broadcasting mind control rays from Epcot Center that make everyone hallucinate visions of Captain Eo on a regular basis just takes it over the edge. Methamphetamines, LSD, or fluoride in the water would just serve to take the edge off. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-fail-on-fluoride/555537.md?page=3)