# Straight Dope on Falun Gong **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 20, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524 "2006-04-20T20:56:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/1 "2006-04-20T20:56:28Z")
What’s the Straight Dope on Falun Gong? Are they a religion, a cult, or a political organization? Are they tied into the Moonies somehow? What’s the deal with The Epoch Times? ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/2 "2006-04-23T05:41:41Z")
The Falun Gong is a cult. That being said, they are being brutally treated by the Chinese government. They have maintained a more or less constant protest against the Chinese embassy in Manhattan. I spoke to a member who had the glassy stare of any good brainwashed cultist. Having the idea that the Chinese would respond to protest just goes to show the extent of that brainwashing. It is very sad really. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_O\_Malley\_s\_Cow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Mrs\_O\_Malley\_s\_Cow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_O_Malley_s_Cow)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/3 "2006-04-23T05:53:16Z")
Here is some information on them: [http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f02.html](http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f02.html) As much as I don’t think cults are right, no one should be treating anyone with the brutality that the Chinese Govt. is known for. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_O\_Malley\_s\_Cow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Mrs\_O\_Malley\_s\_Cow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_O_Malley_s_Cow)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/4 "2006-04-23T05:54:35Z")
It doesn’t seem they are tied to the Moonies but there are some Moonieish beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/5 "2006-04-23T07:26:01Z")
If the word cult is going to mean anything sensible whatsoever, it can’t have anything to do with beliefs. Calling a religious group a cult, if it is to be anything more than an empty insult, has to be due to that group’s behaviors. Cults are controlling and exploitative and do not allow members to leave once they have joined. Cults attempt to cut their followers off from the rest of the world and encourage a total commitment to the cult to the exclusion of keeping ties with family members outside the cult. In short, cults are just like abusive spouses, parents, or partners. Others can use their own definition that is based more or less on deviance from orthodox belief systems. But by that metric, _every_ religion is a cult. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/6 "2006-04-23T07:33:49Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > If the word cult is going to mean anything sensible whatsoever, it can’t have anything to do with beliefs. Calling a religious group a cult, if it is to be anything more than an empty insult, has to be due to that group’s behaviors. As I understand cults, one of their defining characteristics is a leader who is deeply revered and often considered more than human. I’m not an expert on Falun Gong, but they seem to have that going in spades. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/7 "2006-04-23T07:54:30Z")
From Merriam-Webster: **cult** **1 :** formal religious veneration : WORSHIP **2 :** a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents **3 :** a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_O\_Malley\_s\_Cow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Mrs\_O\_Malley\_s\_Cow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_O_Malley_s_Cow)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/8 "2006-04-23T07:55:53Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > If the word cult is going to mean anything sensible whatsoever, it can’t have anything to do with beliefs. Calling a religious group a cult, if it is to be anything more than an empty insult, has to be due to that group’s behaviors. Cults are controlling and exploitative and do not allow members to leave once they have joined. Cults attempt to cut their followers off from the rest of the world and encourage a total commitment to the cult to the exclusion of keeping ties with family members outside the cult. In short, cults are just like abusive spouses, parents, or partners. > > Others can use their own definition that is based more or less on deviance from orthodox belief systems. But by that metric, _every_ religion is a cult. Read about this group. They are controlling. This man does demand complete loyalty to him. This is one of the more bizarre ones. It has the charasmatic leader. The whole shebang. It has everything to do with their beliefs and actions. Every religion is not a cult. The religion I am in encourages exploration and questions and relationships with those who may not agree with you. It is part of the learning process. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/9 "2006-04-23T12:13:18Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > If the word cult is going to mean anything sensible whatsoever, it can’t have anything to do with beliefs. Calling a religious group a cult, if it is to be anything more than an empty insult, has to be due to that group’s behaviors. Cults are controlling and exploitative and do not allow members to leave once they have joined. Cults attempt to cut their followers off from the rest of the world and encourage a total commitment to the cult to the exclusion of keeping ties with family members outside the cult. In short, cults are just like abusive spouses, parents, or partners. > > Others can use their own definition that is based more or less on deviance from orthodox belief systems. But by that metric, _every_ religion is a cult. I don’t see how your premises/definitions support your sweeping conclusion that “all religion is a cult.” Most mainstream (i.e. non fundamentalist) religious groups in the US are not objectively exploitative, do not prevent members from leaving once joined, do not attempt to cut followers from the rest of the world, nor do they encourage “total” commitment to the cult, whatever that might mean. We can debate the term “exploitative,” but remember that religion as practiced differs from religious doctrine. I’d go a step further and say many fundamentalist groups do not fit these criteria either, although exceptions certainly exist. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/10 "2006-04-23T13:25:32Z")
The Chinese Government supposedly try to discredit them by saying they practise “dangerous beliefs”, such as teaching their followers not to go to hospital for treatment, avoid medication and that they will be invicinble, unharmable by any weapons. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/11 "2006-04-23T14:21:07Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > I don’t see how your premises/definitions support your sweeping conclusion that “all religion is a cult.” > > Most mainstream (i.e. non fundamentalist) religious groups in the US are not objectively exploitative, do not prevent members from leaving once joined, do not attempt to cut followers from the rest of the world, nor do they encourage “total” commitment to the cult, whatever that might mean. We can debate the term “exploitative,” but remember that religion as practiced differs from religious doctrine. I’d go a step further and say many fundamentalist groups do not fit these criteria either, although exceptions certainly exist. > [@Derleth](#): > > **Others** can use their own definition that is based more or less on deviance from orthodox belief systems. **But** by that metric, every religion is a cult. [emphasis added] He agrees with you, Ithink: he’s objecting that a casual use of the term “cult” risks incorporating damn near everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/12 "2006-04-23T15:44:20Z")
> [@Manda JO](#): > > He agrees with you, Ithink: he’s objecting that a casual use of the term “cult” risks incorporating damn near everyone. **Derleth** improves with many readings. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/13 "2006-04-23T16:29:58Z")
According to _The Independent_, they also have highly unnattractive views on homosexuality and race, believe that their leader can fly, walk on water and talk to god, and encourage absolute obedience to the movement’s commands. On the other hand, the meditation/exercise technqiues that make up a good deal of Falun Gong’s core beliefs apparently do have health benefits and were officially endorsed by the Chinese government prior to their popular (not necessarily political) demonstrations in 1992 or thereabouts. I don’t think they are an overtly political movement (most of their demonstrations seem to be basically “stop persecuting us”- which is reasonable, I suppose). They seem to be focused on spiritual development, whatever that may mean. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/14 "2006-04-23T17:02:56Z")
Does anyone know how the government tracks down believers? All I ever hear about are protesters getting arrested during protests. Finding them when they’re not gathered in large, obvious groups seems kind of unproductive to me. Not to justify the government’s actions or anything, but maybe if they stopped protesting, they’d stop being persecuted? Just as an anecdote, my grandma and several or her friends were heavily into Falun Gong some 8 years back. They’ve all since dismissed it as bogus but back then they bought all the books and slept with them under their pillows and crap. Everybody knew and nobody cared. Except, of course, for **LittleRamenMonster** and her cousin who thought it would be _hilarious_ to make fun of it every chance they got :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/15 "2006-04-23T20:43:36Z")
Well, given that citizens can be arrested and imprisoned for crimes such as possessing a photograph of the Dalai Lama, I should imagine that they arrest anyone they find in possession of the books, photographs of the leader, Falun Gong equipment (those mediation mats, for example), whatever. As to how they find them? Well, China is a police state- surveillance and random searches, I’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/16 "2006-04-24T00:46:58Z")
Plus every block has a “nosy neighbor” who will turn you in. (1.) 1. “The Execution of Mayor Yin and Other Stories from the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution” Chen Jo-hsi Great book. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/17 "2006-04-24T02:38:40Z")
FWIW, my tai chi teacher once mentioned that there really is a Falun Gong school of qigong, but that the well-known Falun Gong people don’t actually practice it. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/18 "2006-04-24T03:13:14Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Well, China is a police state- surveillance and random searches, I’d think. Random searches? cite? China is very far away from a police state and nobody I know living there would tolerate random searches of their apartments without a warrant or just cause. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/19 "2006-04-24T03:56:45Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Random searches? cite? China is very far away from a police state and nobody I know living there would tolerate random searches of their apartments without a warrant or just cause. Cultural Revolution, Tiananmen Square ring a bell? ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524/20 "2006-04-24T04:40:02Z")
> [@Operation Ripper](#): > > Cultural Revolution, Tiananmen Square ring a bell? What, you think EVERY day in China is June 4th? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-falun-gong/353524.md?page=2)