# Straight Dope on Meteorites Causing Illness **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627 "2007-09-18T17:00:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/1 "2007-09-18T17:00:50Z")
How can a meteor impact cause these Peruvian villagers to become ill? [Link to News Story](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070918/sc_afp/peruhealthoffbeat) This is a serious inquiry, but for the lighter side of this story try [thread=436980]this thread[/thread]. Radiation? Toxic substance? Microscopic alien pathogen? Interplanetary biological warfare? ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/2 "2007-09-18T17:12:00Z")
I’m going to guess that some kind of gas was released, more likely from a pocket in the ground than by the meteorite itself. The villagers did report a strange smell. Or possibly even more likely, mass hysteria and placebo effects are causing panic over absolutely nothing, and people are imagining these symptoms. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/3 "2007-09-18T18:30:04Z")
Haven’t you ever read “The Colour Out Of Space” by H. P. Lovecraft? This short story explains it all. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/4 "2007-09-18T18:47:46Z")
The crater is 100 feet wide and 20 feet deep? Is that big for a meteor (meteorite?) impact? How big of a rock would produce a crater that size? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/5 "2007-09-18T19:06:12Z")
The best known crater is the Barringer crater, in AZ. It is about 1,200 m (4,000 ft) in diameter, about 170 m (570ft) deep. **appleciders** hypothesis is likely correct. Either one. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/6 "2007-09-18T19:27:51Z")
Yeah, I know about the Berringer Crater (I’ve even been to it) but I guess I didn’t phrase my question very well. I know there have been large impacts in the (relatively) distant past but I have not heard of any “recent” impacts that produced any type of sizable crater. I seem to remember things like seeing photos where someone has found a meteorite in a field and they are showing something softball sized and a crater only a foot or two across. I also know that rocks of various sizes land all the time. I guess what I am trying to find out is if something that would produce a 100 foot crater is bigger than “normal” and, if so, how much bigger. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/7 "2007-09-18T22:00:52Z")
Here is a [calculator](http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/tekton/crater_p.html) program from [this site](http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/tekton/crater.html) that estimates the size of the meteor where you need more info about the meteor than just the crater dimensions. For S&G, I assumed a few parameters that are average in nature and ended up with: > [@](#): > > **Crater > H. Jay Melosh and Ross A. Beyer** > > Results for computing projectile size from transient crater diameterYour Inputs: > > Crater Descriptor > > ``` > Final Crater Diameter 0.03 kilometers > > ``` > > Projectile Descriptor > > ``` > Projectile Density 3000 kg/m3 > > ``` > > Impact Conditions > > ``` > Impact Velocity 17 km/sec > Impact Angle 45 degrees > > ``` > > Target Descriptors > > ``` > Target Density 3000 kg/m3 > Acceleration of Gravity 9.8 m/sec2 > Target Type competent rock or saturated soil > > ``` > > Results > \*The three scaling laws yield the following projectile diameters: (note that diameters assume a spherical projectile) > > **Yield Scaling 7.12 x 10-1 meters > Pi Scaling (Preferred method!) 3.31 x 10-1 meters > Gault Scaling 0.83 meters**\* > Crater Formation Time 8.23 x 10-1 seconds > > Using the Pi Scaling method this impactor would have struck the target with an energy of 8.21 x 109 Joules (1.96 x 10-6 MegaTons). > > Crater Program, Copyright© 2002 Ross A. Beyer & H. Jay Melosh > These results come with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. So, educated guess…about 1/3 meter in diameter…assuming it’s spherical in nature and with all those other WAG parameters I assumed. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/8 "2007-09-18T22:02:50Z")
There is no normal. Meteorites are sized on what I believe is a reverse exponential scale (i.e. asymptotic on the left to the y-axis and asymptotic on the right to the x-axis). There are huge numbers of microscopic particles, large numbers of dust-sized particles, and increasingly fewer larger ones. The smaller ones hit every day. The larger ones hit on a decreasing average frequency: once every year, every 10 years, every 100 years, … every 100,000,000 years. The averages are somewhat skewed by bands of broken up meteorites and comets. And of course, on average three-quarters of these will hit the ocean and not land. How large a meteorite would it take to make this crater? Not large, I would think. Maybe 1-10 meters in diameter would do it depending on composition. There’s plenty of evidence of recent activity that size. It’s just that very little of it hits an inhabited area. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/9 "2007-09-18T22:12:59Z")
The link I found has it as " When farmers went to investigate, however, they found a crater at least 10m wide and 5m deep, but no sign of wreckage." > **[Peru meteorite crash 'causes mystery illness'](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/sep/18/spaceexploration.science)** > > A meteorite has struck a remote part of Peru and carved a large crater that is emitting noxious odours and making villagers ill, according to local press reports. So theres some variation in crater size occurring with reports, thats like 30 feet across and 15 feet deep. Has a picture of the ‘impact’ too. Im not an expert but it looks a bit funny to me. Article here explaining why its all a bit suspect: > **[Meteorite Makes Villagers Sick!!! Maybe.](https://www.wired.com/2007/09/meteorite-makes/)** > > AFP is reporting that residents of a village in southern Peru were taken ill after a meteorite landed in their region. Hey, shades of the Andromeda Strain! How cool is this! From the AFP report: Rescue teams and experts were dispatched to the scene,... Otara ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/10 "2007-09-18T22:14:32Z")
[QUOTE=Ronald C. Semone] Haven’t you ever read “The Colour Out Of Space” by H. P. Lovecraft? This short story explains it all. [/QUOTE] I read this as **The Colon Out of Space** Which would explain why the villagers were getting sick if HP Lovecraft’s colon was involved. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/11 "2007-09-18T22:27:53Z")
I for one welcome our new meteorite-hurling overlords. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/12 "2007-09-19T00:21:22Z")
Interesting. I had somehow assumed that a meteorite that would make a 100 foot crater would be larger than that. I guess I wasn’t taking into account how fast it would be moving. Thanks. And looking at the photo in **Otara** ’s link I think the 100 foot number is well off anyway; it looks more like 10 feet to me. Is it possible that it isn’t even a crater? Maybe they saw a meteor break up and the “crater” is just a hot spring or vent or something that just happened to be in the same area. Is that area of Peru geologically active? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/13 "2007-09-19T16:15:28Z")
Wouldn’t a nickel-iron meteoroid transfer the heat of entry to its core faster than a stony one? What if the angle of impact was closer to 90 degrees? Peru is close to the equator. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/14 "2007-09-19T16:18:55Z")
This is interesting. The last line from an ABC News [report](http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3621568): > [@](#): > > Hernando Tavera, a geophysicist at the institute, said similar cases were reported in 2002 and 2004 elsewhere in southern Peru but never confirmed as meteorites. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/15 "2007-09-19T18:27:45Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] Wouldn’t a nickel-iron meteoroid transfer the heat of entry to its core faster than a stony one? What if the angle of impact was closer to 90 degrees? Peru is close to the equator. [/QUOTE] The core of any meteoroid is near absolute zero for billions of years…it would take much more than atmospherical friction to heat the core…what usually happens is that the exposed surface of the meteor heats up while the interior remains virtually unchanged until impact, or it fractures into smaller pieces…but still, it remains very cold. [Another explanation here.](http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/09/meteorite-makes.html) As for your other question… > [@](#): > > Impact Effects > Robert Marcus, H. Jay Melosh, and Gareth Collins > > Please note: the results below are estimates based on current (limited) understanding of the impact process and come with large uncertainties; they should be used with caution, particularly in the case of peculiar input parameters. All values are given to three significant figures but this does not reflect the precision of the estimate. For more information about the uncertainty associated with our calculations and a full discussion of this program, please refer to this article > > \*\*Your Inputs: > Distance from Impact: 1.00 km = 0.62 miles > Projectile Diameter: 0.33 m = 1.09 ft = 0.00 miles > Projectile Density: 8000 kg/m3 > Impact Velocity: 20.00 km/s = 12.42 miles/s > Impact Angle: 90 degrees > Target Density: 2500 kg/m3 > Target Type: Sedimentary Rock \*\* > > Energy: > Energy before atmospheric entry: 3.09 x 1010 Joules = 0.74 x 10-5 MegaTons TNT > The average interval between impacts of this size somewhere on Earth is less than 1 month. > > Atmospheric Entry: > The projectile lands intact, with a velocity 0.221 km/s = 0.137 miles/s. > The energy lost in the atmosphere is 3.09 x 1010 Joules = 0.74 x 10-5 MegaTons. > > Major Global Changes: > The Earth is not strongly disturbed by the impact and loses negligible mass. > The impact does not make a noticeable change in the Earth’s rotation period or the tilt of its axis. > The impact does not shift the Earth’s orbit noticeably. > > Crater Dimensions: > What does this mean? > \*\*Transient Crater Diameter: 4.73 m = 15.5 ft > Transient Crater Depth: 1.67 m = 5.48 ft > > ``` > Final Crater Diameter: 5.91 m = 19.4 ft > Final Crater Depth: 1.26 m = 4.13 ft > > ``` > > \*\* > The crater formed is a simple crater > > ``` > The floor of the crater is underlain by a lens of broken rock debris (breccia) with a maximum thickness of 0.584 m = 1.92 ft. > At this impact velocity ( < 12 km/s), little shock melting of the target occurs. > > Thermal Radiation: > What does this mean? > At this impact velocity ( < 15 km/s), little vaporization occurs; no fireball is created, therefore, there is no thermal radiation damage. > > Seismic Effects: > What does this mean? > The Richter Scale Magnitude for this impact is less than zero; no seismic shaking will be felt. > > Ejecta: > What does this mean? > Most ejecta is blocked by Earth's atmosphere > Air Blast: > What does this mean? > The air blast will arrive at approximately 3.03 seconds. > Peak Overpressure: 52.6 Pa = 0.000526 bars = 0.00748 psi > Max wind velocity: 0.124 m/s = 0.278 mph > Sound Intensity: 34 dB (Easily Heard) > > Tell me more... > > Click here for a pdf document that details the observations, assumptions, and equations upon which this program is based. It describes our approach to quantifying the important impact processes that might affect the people, buildings, and landscape in the vicinity of an impact event and discusses the uncertainty in our predictions. The processes included are: atmospheric entry, impact crater formation, fireball expansion and thermal radiation, ejecta deposition, seismic shaking, and the propagation of the atmospheric blast wave. > > ``` Now that size of crater seems closer to what see in the picture. As for Peru being closer to the equator, that’s true, but it does not play a factor with respect to the entry angle of a meteor. Any sporadic meteor can come from any direction in space and will enter the atmosphere a virtually any entry angle. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/16 "2007-09-19T18:30:14Z")
[QUOTE=tanstaafl] Is it possible that it isn’t even a crater? Maybe they saw a meteor break up and the “crater” is just a hot spring or vent or something that just happened to be in the same area. Is that area of Peru geologically active? [/QUOTE] My WAG is that the meteor punctured an underground sulpher spring and the spring filled up part of the crater. ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/17 "2007-09-19T23:34:34Z")
My WAG is something volcanic, on a small scale. The BBC web site’s report quoted people talking about a smelly gas coming out of the crater. Peru is plagued by earthquakes–just last month a coastal quake killed over 500 people–so volcanic activity is not out of the question. Deadly gases from volcanic activity have precedent, too. Google “Lake Nyos” for a particularly bad case. I don’t know of any precedent for deadly gases or other excretions from meteorites, outside of movies. Volcanoes have even been known to emit methane, which if ignited could create a fireball, which might give the impression of a meteorite landing. Has anyone actually found any meteorite fragments? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-meteorites-causing-illness/419627/18 "2007-09-20T16:00:43Z")
A follow-up article has a bunch of scientist types doubting a meteor is the cause of the sickness. (Pretty much saying what people here have been saying.)