# Straight Dope on Nitrogen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060 "2011-07-14T21:41:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![swann2001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@swann2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swann2001)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/1 "2011-07-14T21:41:07Z")
I have been using Nitrogen for over 10 years and would never go back to using air again which by the way is no longer free in most places. First Cecil seems to think the only reason to get Nitrogen is for the cool green valve stems. I totally disagree and the end of his tirade against Nitrogen even gives the main reason why people should replace air with Nitrogen, that better than 60% of driver’s rarely if ever check their tires, and probably make that 95% of all women. However a recent Government report stated that as much as 700 million barrels of oil per year could be saved if every driver just kept their tires properly inflated. The way to do that is Nitrogen, nothing else works as well and at Tire Warehouse the cost is only $5 per tire and right now 7/14/11 they have a 20% discount to encourage more people to try it. I have driven my jeep for over 3 years and never once needed a boost or refill and my tires are wearing evenly which means they will last much longer, saving landfills space from tires that still had plenty of good tread but had bald spots due to under or over inflation. If people reading this are concerned about saving the whales, global warming or the environment and yet won’t spend $20 to get better gas mileage and save money on premature tire replacements then so be it. But don’t complain about the high cost of fuel or global warming or put bumper stickers on your car about saving the whales because that would just make you shallow and something of a hypocrite. Don’t take my word for it, try it and I will bet $20 you will never want just air in your tires again. * * * LINK TO COLUMN: [Is it better to fill your tires with nitrogen instead of air? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2694/is-it-better-to-fill-your-tires-with-nitrogen-instead-of-air) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/2 "2011-07-14T22:12:28Z")
Proper tire inflation is important. Using nitrogen instead of air has nothing to do with proper tire inflation. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/3 "2011-07-14T23:21:20Z")
So the argument of the o.p. is that nitrogen is a magical gas assures that your tires always remain properly inflated? Or is this just a viral marketing campaign for Tire Warehouse? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Rain\_Soaked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rain\_Soaked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rain_Soaked)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/4 "2011-07-14T23:49:55Z")
Nitrogen is indeed very useful in tires but I like to use a mixture of different gases. I have found that 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen plus a bit of Argon also give me really good mileage when I use it to inflate my tires to the proper pressure. I also put a small bit of CO2 in there to help the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/5 "2011-07-14T23:53:47Z")
I think this is the [column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2694/is-it-better-to-fill-your-tires-with-nitrogen-instead-of-air)in question. I wouldn’t exactly call it a scathing ‘tirade against nitrogen’. > [@](#): > > Filling your tires with nitrogen mainly does two things: it eliminates moisture, and it replaces skinny oxygen molecules with fat nitrogen molecules, reducing the rate at which compressed gas diffuses through porous tire walls. That means, theoretically at least, that a tire filled with nitrogen retains optimal pressure longer, leading to more uniform tire wear and better gas mileage. [snip] Overall, filling up with nitrogen won’t hurt and may provide some minimal benefit. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/6 "2011-07-15T00:21:06Z")
> [@Rain\_Soaked](#): > > Nitrogen is indeed very useful in tires but I like to use a mixture of different gases. I have found that 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen plus a bit of Argon also give me really good mileage when I use it to inflate my tires to the proper pressure. I also put a small bit of CO2 in there to help the environment. But what if that were to leak out and harm the environment?!? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/7 "2011-07-15T00:51:27Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > But what if that were to leak out and harm the environment?!? > 😉 Very valid point, but it does remove almost all traces of [Dihydrogen Monoxide](http://www.dhmo.org/) from the tires. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/8 "2011-07-15T00:58:53Z")
Only on the inside. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/9 "2011-07-15T17:12:41Z")
> [@Rain\_Soaked](#): > > Nitrogen is indeed very useful in tires but I like to use a mixture of different gases. I have found that 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen plus a bit of Argon also give me really good mileage when I use it to inflate my tires to the proper pressure. I also put a small bit of CO2 in there to help the environment. I’ve found that at places charging for a tire gas fill, I can get the N[sub]2[/sub]-O[sub]2[/sub]-Ar blend that **Rain Soaked** uses for 10% of the price **swann2001** normally pays for the all-N[sub]2[/sub] gas fill. Some places even give me this gas fill for free! Now if I can only get dive shops to provide clean EAN21 for the same price, I’ll be set. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/10 "2011-07-15T17:37:14Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Or is this just a viral marketing campaign for Tire Warehouse? Until shown otherwise. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![penumbrage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c77e96/32.png) [@penumbrage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penumbrage)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/11 "2011-08-09T09:52:40Z")
The only minuses are cost and availability, although more and more shops are offering the option for less and less (some for free) and several companies sell small, portable tank/regulator units. On the plus side, N2 has slight to moderate advantages over hydrous air in thermal conductivity, tire oxidization, rim corrosion, pressure variability over temperature and pressure loss over time (Consumer Reports long term leak down testing averaged 62% that of air). The major plus and deciding factor for me was the same reason it’s used in emergency vehicles, race cars and commercial aircraft, simple safety. Your $20 car fire extinguisher is much more likely to save some other person’s life than your own (the more severe the crash the greater the chance of fire and the more likelihood you’ll be unconscious or too dazed to use it). In the unfortunate event you do crash and burn - or some fool generously includes you in his carbecue - I think $20 spent on a poor man’s fire suppression system (OK, oxygen displacement system) that auto-deploys either at impact (when the tank is rupturing and metal is grinding and sparking) or after impact (if there’s a fire) is obviously a far better choice than the admittedly cheaper automatic fire enhancement system - driving around on a hundred cubic feet of pressurized oxidizer. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/12 "2011-10-21T15:56:32Z")
> [@penumbrage](#): > > In the unfortunate event you do crash and burn - or some fool generously includes you in his carbecue - I think $20 spent on a poor man’s fire suppression system (OK, oxygen displacement system) that auto-deploys either at impact (when the tank is rupturing and metal is grinding and sparking) or after impact (if there’s a fire) is obviously a far better choice than the admittedly cheaper automatic fire enhancement system - driving around on a hundred cubic feet of pressurized oxidizer. Please provide a single example of a passenger or commercial vehicle bursting into flame due to air escaping from ruptured tires and/or an automotive fire being suppressed due to release of pure nitrogen inflated tires. Also, what kind of gigantor monster truck tires are you driving around on that have a total 100 cu ft air capacity? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/13 "2011-10-22T03:34:02Z")
I’m interested in Stranger’s question as well. > [@penumbrage](#): > > (Consumer Reports long term leak down testing averaged 62% that of air). Here are the cites: [http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/tires-nitrogen-.html](http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/tires-nitrogen-.html) [http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/nitrogen-tires-.html](http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/nitrogen-tires-.html) Consumer Reports compared all nitrogen inflated tires to those inflated with air: they took the same tire models, inflated them both ways, and placed them outdoors for a year. They did not attach them to vehicles. The N2 tires bled 2.2 psi. The air tires bled 3.5 psi. So there was a difference - a 37% difference. But that hardly eliminates the need to check the air on your tires. Checking it every 40 days rather than every 30 days seems hardly worth the bother. > [@Consumer Reports](#): > > Q: Seems to me that since the difference is so small and nitrogen is difficult to get and more costly that it is not worth the effort and the cost. > A: That’s a logical conclusion. > … > Q: A flawed study and analysis. And sadly quiet on the advantages of using nitrogen in heavy trucks where 18 tires need to be maintained weekly to pressures of 100 psi. > A: The positive benefits of nitrogen in high(er) service pressure applications, such as used in large truck tires, has been documented in the industry. Our test centered on passenger tires, only. We are not discrediting the use of nitrogen, but it is not a substitute for regular inflation checks. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/14 "2011-10-22T04:19:00Z")
The OP says that the tire store fills tires filled with Nitrogen for five bucks a pop. At my dealership we will fill your tires with 78% Nitrogen for free. And people say car dealers are ripoffs. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/15 "2011-10-25T02:42:49Z")
> [@swann2001](#): > > I have been using Nitrogen for over 10 years and would never go back to using air again which by the way is no longer free in most places. First Cecil seems to think the only reason to get Nitrogen is for the cool green valve stems. I totally disagree and the end of his tirade against Nitrogen even gives the main reason why people should replace air with Nitrogen, that better than 60% of driver’s rarely if ever check their tires, and probably make that 95% of all women. However a recent Government report stated that as much as 700 million barrels of oil per year could be saved if every driver just kept their tires properly inflated. The way to do that is Nitrogen, nothing else works as well and at Tire Warehouse the cost is only $5 per tire and right now 7/14/11 they have a 20% discount to encourage more people to try it. I have driven my jeep for over 3 years and never once needed a boost or refill and my tires are wearing evenly which means they will last much longer, saving landfills space from tires that still had plenty of good tread but had bald spots due to under or over inflation. If people reading this are concerned about saving the whales, global warming or the environment and yet won’t spend $20 to get better gas mileage and save money on premature tire replacements then so be it. But don’t complain about the high cost of fuel or global warming or put bumper stickers on your car about saving the whales because that would just make you shallow and something of a hypocrite. Don’t take my word for it, try it and I will bet $20 you will never want just air in your tires again. > > * * * > > LINK TO COLUMN: [Is it better to fill your tires with nitrogen instead of air? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2694/is-it-better-to-fill-your-tires-with-nitrogen-instead-of-air) filling with nitrogen has nothing at all to do with not having leaks. We used to do it with truck tires, the rationale being that we had, at the time, lots of tire fires caused by ply seperations, the resultant friction, etc. Not having any oxygen inside the tire was a matter of ‘every little bit helps’. We also stocked our truck cabs with water fire extinguishers because the powder or foam ones didn’t do any good on ply fires. IMHO, nitrogen for tires is a bit of a scam. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/16 "2011-10-25T09:15:11Z")
> [@swann2001](#): > > …probably make that 95% of all women… Excuse me? I check all my gauges every time I drive, including tire pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/17 "2011-10-25T19:25:14Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > Excuse me? I check all my gauges every time I drive, including tire pressure. Clearly you are an outlier. Especially if your tires don’t spontaneously explode with tens of cubic feet of air every time you brake. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/18 "2011-10-25T20:07:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Clearly you are an outlier. > > Especially if your tires don’t spontaneously explode with tens of cubic feet of air every time you brake. > > Stranger Not to mention how unusual it is to have a tire gauge in a passenger car dashboard. I have a low pressure light, but it comes on at about 65% of nominal, so is pretty useless. ---
**Author:** ![Labtrash](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/labtrash/32/528_2.png) [@Labtrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labtrash)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/19 "2011-10-25T20:36:13Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Not to mention how unusual it is to have a tire gauge in a passenger car dashboard. I have a low pressure light, but it comes on at about 65% of nominal, so is pretty useless. My wife’s 2011 GMC Terrain has an in-dash pressure display - the individual pressures in all four tires are displayed. Pretty sure it was standard - we didn’t go all “bells & whistles” when we bought it. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060/20 "2011-10-25T23:25:01Z")
> [@Labtrash](#): > > My wife’s 2011 GMC Terrain has an in-dash pressure display - the individual pressures in all four tires are displayed. > > Pretty sure it was standard - we didn’t go all “bells & whistles” when we bought it. Mine is a 2006, so maybe it has become standard on some new cars. I know I would like that because mine doesn’t even tell you which tire is low. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-on-nitrogen/589060.md?page=2)