# Strange Air Battle **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 5, 2001, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553 "2001-10-05T12:07:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/21 "2001-10-07T06:22:43Z")
Wish I could keep pet bats… try it here and you’ll end up with a big fine or in jail (if anyone finds out) ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Spider\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_Woman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/22 "2001-10-07T12:23:43Z")
here in St. Cloud, Minnesota, at the [Heritage Nature Center](http://ci.stcloud.mn.us/Web/departments/Recreation/HerNature/hours.htm), there was a project to attract bats. I believe they made some [bat houses](http://www.batcon.org/bhra/bhcriter.html). **mmmiiikkkeee** , is that something that would be allowed in your area? It might be the next best thing to having a pet bat (and maybe better, because you could observe them more naturally than if they were pets). ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/23 "2001-10-07T13:01:43Z")
Good bathouses are availabe commercially, or can be easily made from plans and readily available materials. Try BCI for sources. Pal was captured because he was mixed-in with a colony of bats under study, but was seperated-out because he was the wrong variety. To avoid him dying from dislocation, he wasn’t released until the next spring, and because my stepfather was indulgent, we got to care for him, rather than euthanising him or having a research assistant do it. It was also \>25 years ago, when the rules weren’t quite so stringent. Couldn’t do it today. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/24 "2001-10-07T16:40:39Z")
Almost anyone can see a live bat, **mmmiiikkkeee**. Just go outside at dusk, and look skyward. **Yeah’s** description from the CDC is dead on. Moreover, of those rabies cases that haven’t been identified, the supposition is that just a scratch or touch may have been the cause. Reading the case studies is very scary, especially if you have bats around. I used to think bats were great, especially given the number of mosquitos around our place. When there was a rabid one in the kitchen, however, my opinion shifted slightly. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/25 "2001-10-07T19:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yeah \* > \*\*“According to Bat Conservation International, you’re more likely to get bitten by a rabid cow than a rabid bat.” > > What is BCI’s source for this interesting statement?\*\* I can’t find that article, so in all honestly, I don’t know what their source was. > [@](#): > > **In 24 cases, the exposure was unknown but of these, 22 were caused by strains associated with bats and 2 were caused by strains associated with dogs. Of course, the fact that a person is infected with a rabies virus strain that is associated with bats doesn’t mean that she was bitten by a bat.** Indeed it does not. It means that a bat was the starting point, but there may be many other cases between that bat and the human. > [@](#): > > \*\*But it seems plausible that at least some of the 22 with “unknown” exposure were bitten by bats.[/B}] It doesn’t seem that plausible to me. An encounter with a bat is something most people remeber(Ask Johnson). OTOH if they were infected through contact with a stray dog or cat, they may well not remember an event that is fairly routine and usually harmless. Heck, an outbreak of E Coli in Pennsylvania was traced back to a petting zoo. But the truth is if it says unknown, then neither you nor I can make verifiable claims as to the carrier. > [@](#): > > \*\*So I wonder about the basis for the statement that DocCathode attributes to BCI. \*\* I attribute it to BCI because Merlin Tuttle, founder of BCI , said it. I can not remember his source for this, and I can’t find the article. But I am sure of what Tuttle said, and that it was Tuttle who said it. ``` I repeat-Any mammal can carry rabies. I don't deny that bats do sometimes contract rabies and transmit it to humans through a bite. I maintain that bats are not the health threat many people believe them to be. Your link to the CDC, shows that most cases of rabies are contracted from racoons. From Bats Of The World, by Gary L Graham-PhD in Zoology- "However, less than 0.5 percent of bats have rabies." ``` ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/26 "2001-10-07T19:27:21Z")
I apologise for the coding of my last post. As you can see I accidentally typed “[/B}]” and forgot to preview. ---
**Author:** ![Yeah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/dbc845/32.png) [@Yeah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeah)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/27 "2001-10-07T21:21:16Z")
DocCathode: “Your link to the CDC, shows that most cases of rabies are contracted from racoons.” Here is a summary about what the CDC says about the last 10 cases of human rabies in the U.S. 1. chased bat out of house about 4 months before illness 2. no animal exposure known 3. awakened by bat in motel room about 2 months before illness 4. had bats in living room about 3 months before illness 5. no animal exposure known 6. chased bat from home 2-3 months before illness 7. bitten by dog 8. had 200 bats living in his attic 9. bitten by bat about 2 months before illness 10. used to remove bats from home 2-3 times/year Of course, the fact that a person chases, handles, was bitten by or sleeps with a bat 2-4 months before coming down with rabies doesn’t mean that she contracted rabies from a bat; could have been a racoon. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/28 "2001-10-08T01:12:10Z")
What’s the incubation time for rabies? It seems to me that two or three months from supposed contact to illness would be rather long. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/29 "2001-10-08T02:35:45Z")
“Wild animals accounted for nearly 92% of reported cases of rabies in 1999.\*\* Raccoons continued to be the most frequently reported rabid wildlife species (40.6% of all animal cases during 1999)\*\*,followed by skunks (29.4%), bats (14.0%), foxes (5.4%), and other wild animals, including rodents and lagomorphs (0.6%). Reported cases in bats, raccoons, foxes and skunks decreased 0.3%, 18.0%, 11.7% and 0.8% respectively from the totals reported in 1998.” ``` 10 cases are nowhere near a large enough sample to generalize from. **Of course, the fact that a person chases, handles, was bitten by or sleeps with a bat 2-4 months before coming down with rabies doesn't mean that she contracted rabies from a bat; could have been a racoon.** Love the tone there. ``` ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/30 "2001-10-08T02:47:40Z")
Raccoons are the most frequently reported rabid animals, but it does not necessarily follow that they cause the most cases of rabies in humans. As I mentioned, the case studies are rather scary. And nobody’s mentioned the spelunkers in Texas (New Mexico, maybe?) who apparently inhaled aerosolized bat saliva and contracted rabies. Wish I had something to say about seagulls… ---
**Author:** ![Yeah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/dbc845/32.png) [@Yeah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeah)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/31 "2001-10-08T03:23:29Z")
Johnson’s correct about the raccoons. 10 cases can be enough to generalize from depending on the question. (Heck, our gov’t is spending billions of dollar based on 4 cases.) Among the 10 rabies, 7 were associated with bats and 0 with raccoons. I think that rules out “most cases of rabies are contracted from racoons” at least in the U.S. from 1997-2000, the period covered by the 10 cases. But I’d be very interested in seeing a properly applied statistical test that showed that 7 versus 0 in a sample of 10 was not a statistically significant difference. “The incubation period may vary from a few days to several years, but typically lasts 1 to 3 months.” [http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/natural\_history/nathist.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/natural_history/nathist.htm) ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/32 "2001-10-08T07:12:55Z")
I made a bathouse (plans from the local bat society) and put it up, but I’m too far from the water and too far into the city to attract them - the house has remained empty for about 6 years. Yeah, anyone CAN see a bat, but what I was getting at was how few people DO see bats, and how many fewer ever get close enough to come into contact with them. You’d be surprised (I am) by how many people think that bats only live in caves in tropical areas and eat fruit or suck blood. At times I’ve seen bats flying about and felt like choking the people beside me who INSIST that they are birds (flying around the woods at midnight) because bats don’t exist here… rrrrrgh - the ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/33 "2001-10-08T13:51:28Z")
Being in the city doesn’t mean you can’t attract bats. One of my few bats sightings was in center city, Philadelphia. A bunch of us were up on the roof of an apartment building. I was checking out the view and examining an old chimney. 2 bats flew out. It might just be a matter of fiddling with the bathouse-different locations, heights, sizes, materials etc. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@Thing\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_1)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2001, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/34 "2001-10-08T14:26:10Z")
> [@](#): > > ``` > originally posted by Thing 1 > I am not sure about the fight, but rabies can be carried by all warm blooded animals. Birds are warm blooded so I > gather they can get rabies and transmit the disease. > > I have seen statements that "all warm-blooded animals" can get rabies, but I don't think this is correct. AFAIK only mammals can get or > transmit rabies. I have never heard of birds getting it. I handle live birds all the time, and am sure that rabies vaccination is not considered > necessary. I do have rabies vaccination, because we do occasionally catch bats in our nets. > > ``` I also have never heard of any birds transmitting the disease. However, I often see the statement about all warm blooded animals. If it is not true, how did this particular piece of folklore get started? Just curious. John ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Spider\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_Woman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/35 "2001-10-09T00:17:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Rabies virus causes an acute encephalitis in all warm-blooded hosts, including humans, and the outcome is almost always fatal comes from [another page](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/natural_history/nathist.htm) of the [original link](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/Ques&Ans/q&a.htm) provided by **Bob Scene** [great name, by the way]. The next sentence then goes on to say > [@](#): > > Although all species of mammals are susceptible to rabies virus infection, . . . From the context, I am assuming they are using the terms “warm-blooded” and “mammals” [incorrectly] interchangably. That may be where the misconception occurs. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/36 "2001-10-10T07:55:21Z")
I’ve tried for years to get the bats into the house. This being a rather dry place, they tend to roost closer to where the water and bugs are, even though they’ll hunt far and wide. Ironically, in my location being in the city does deter bats from my bathouse not because they aren’t here(I’ve seen them), but because there are so many better places for them to choose from that are higher, safer, possibly heated a bit, and aren’t cluttered with trees. ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Spider\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_Woman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/37 "2001-10-10T11:19:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by johnson \* > **. . .And nobody’s mentioned the spelunkers in Texas (New Mexico, maybe?) who apparently inhaled aerosolized bat saliva and contracted rabies.** [Here](http://www.sgim.org/Publicweb/Meetings/am19/ws/travmed.html) is a link my brother (a less frequent lurker since the board changes) found when I told him about the spelunkers in Texas. Go down the page and look under rabies, and it mentions this as a way of contracting rabies. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553/38 "2001-10-10T12:56:46Z")
To my mind (as you can probably tell), rabies is one of the most terrifying of diseases, partly because they can’t tell if you have it until it’s too late (I believe only one person has ever survived after showing symptoms), and from reading the case histories it’s clear that they (and the subject) have no clue how it could have been contracted. Having said that, the idea of a rabid cow makes me laugh every time I think of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-air-battle/85553.md?page=1)