# Strange alternative history novels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330 "2012-05-08T22:30:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![A\_Sniveling\_Mess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@A\_Sniveling\_Mess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Sniveling_Mess)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/1 "2012-05-08T22:30:52Z")
I was hoping to buy a good alternative history book,but it’s been somewhat difficult to find one.I’d like a book that… Is somewhat weird but still _almost_ believable; is around 100 to 400 pages long(I’m pretty new to the genre,so it’s best if it’s fairly short); and includes some important historical event or historical person(preferably American,but anybody would do).Put simply,I’d like a book kind of like the Harry Turtledove books.Any ideas on the subject would be greatly appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/2 "2012-05-08T22:37:30Z")
You can find all AH fiction ever published listed at [Uchronia.net,](http://www.uchronia.net/) and it has a search function. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/3 "2012-05-08T23:49:57Z")
There’s Tim Powers’s _The Stress of Her Regard_, although there’s a strong paranormal element that may be too weird/not believable enough for you. The (fictional) early 19th century protagonist meets several major Romantic Era literary figures and learns about the connection they all share to a mysterious race of vampire-like creatures. The historic parts are pretty well researched, and the Powers manages to make the totally invented parts fit together with the known life and works of these authors. Some of their choices actually become a lot more sympathetic in the fictional context, like Lord Byron’s insistence that his illegitimate daughter Allegra be kept away from both him and her mother and raised in a convent instead. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/4 "2012-05-09T00:00:37Z")
> [@JRyan35](#): > > I was hoping to buy a good alternative history book,but it’s been somewhat difficult to find one.I’d like a book that… > Is somewhat weird but still _almost_ believable; Have you tried the Flashman books? Not quite alternative history, more an alternative take on history. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/5 "2012-05-09T00:08:55Z")
Do you want historical fiction? Or fantasy? For a realistic take on the genre you could grab [What If?](http://www.amazon.com/What-If-Foremost-Military-Historians/dp/0425176428). It’s what introduced me to the genre. If you want fantasy you could get [Guns of the South](http://www.amazon.com/The-Guns-South-Harry-Turtledove/dp/0345384687/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1336522031&sr=1-1). An entertaining and light read, but not plausible in the least bit. For something not published, “realistic” alternative history you could read online, [Decades of Darkness](http://decadesofdarkness.alternatehistory.com/). This timeline is about what would have happened should New England had succeeded from the U.S. early in our nation’s history. Warning, it is very long. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/6 "2012-05-09T00:17:50Z")
I don’t read too much in this genre, but i really enjoyed Philip Roth’s _The Plot Against America_. It’s an alternate history in which FDR is defeated in the 1940 Presidential election by an isolationist Charles Lindbergh. The novel is not, for the most part, about big-man politics; rather, it focuses on a semi-autobiographical Philip as a boy, growing up Jewish in New Jersey during a time of increased isolationism and also anti-Semitism in American culture. The novel is set in the same New Jersey town area where Roth himself grew up, and reflects his own ideas about how his life might have been different in his alternate history timeline. The book mentions plenty of real historical figures, and does deal with the big-picture politics of the era, but it’s also a study of childhood and of American culture more generally. The most important big-picture issue is the formation of a new government department whose mission is to fully integrate and Americanize Jews in the US by taking them from their neighborhoods and placing them with good American families across the country, especially in the midwest and south. It’s at the upper limit of your page-count, at about 400 pages. ETA: This book is, in many of its historical aspects, eminently believable. I teach college history, focusing on the United States in the 20th century, and it’s clear that Roth understands American culture of the late 1930s and 1940s. As with most Roth books, his male characters are stronger and better written than his female ones. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Sniveling\_Mess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@A\_Sniveling\_Mess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Sniveling_Mess)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/7 "2012-05-09T00:27:47Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Do you want historical fiction? Or fantasy? > > For a realistic take on the genre you could grab [What If?](http://www.amazon.com/What-If-Foremost-Military-Historians/dp/0425176428). It’s what introduced me to the genre. > > If you want fantasy you could get [Guns of the South](http://www.amazon.com/The-Guns-South-Harry-Turtledove/dp/0345384687/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1336522031&sr=1-1). An entertaining and light read, but not plausible in the least bit. > > For something not published, “realistic” alternative history you could read online, [Decades of Darkness](http://decadesofdarkness.alternatehistory.com/). This timeline is about what would have happened should New England had succeeded from the U.S. early in our nation’s history. Warning, it is very long. Well,I especially would like to read historical fantasy-type novels,but historical fiction is alright too,so long as it isn’t too romantic.I think I will check on those books;I had heard of _Guns of the South_,and from what I’ve read,it seems like a good book,although it is over 500 pages,so I might buy that one.Thanks for the help. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Sniveling\_Mess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@A\_Sniveling\_Mess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Sniveling_Mess)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/8 "2012-05-09T00:29:14Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Have you tried the Flashman books? Not quite alternative history, more an alternative take on history. No,I actually haven’t heard of those books.What are they about? ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/9 "2012-05-09T00:30:57Z")
Are there any strange alternative history books that read more like actual history books than conventional novels? I like the idea of the genre, but I’d rather focus on the global picture than get bogged down in character drama. The excerpt of the fictional history book in _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ was really interesting to me. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/10 "2012-05-09T00:39:24Z")
> [@JRyan35](#): > > No,I actually haven’t heard of those books.What are they about? Harry Flashman is a a scoundrel, a liar, a cheat, a thief, a coward, and he somehow ends up at most of the significant events during the 19th century. Marvelous fun reads. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/11 "2012-05-09T00:41:04Z")
If you’re looking for a good “strange” AH with elements of fantasy I highly recommend _Devil’s Tower_ and its sequel _Devil’s Engine_ by Mark Sumner. They’re essentially westerns but the alternate history element is that the mass deaths of the Civil War a decade or so earlier opened some kind of cosmic breach and allowed magic to work. This caused a collapse of civilization in western America and the only authority are the local “Sheriffs” who have enough magical power to assert authority over their town. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/12 "2012-05-09T00:45:07Z")
Oh, I forgot my recommendation. Kim Newman’s **Anno Dracula** , where, having defeated van Helsing, Count Dracula weds Queen Victoria and ushers in an era when vampires no longer need to hide in England. Until someone starts killing undead prostitutes in White Chapel… ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/13 "2012-05-09T00:46:43Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > Are there any strange alternative history books that read more like actual history books than conventional novels? I like the idea of the genre, but I’d rather focus on the global picture than get bogged down in character drama. The excerpt of the fictional history book in _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ was really interesting to me. You’ll want this one then: [For Want of a Nail](http://www.amazon.com/For-Want-Nail-Greenhill-Paperback/dp/1853675040/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1336524357&sr=8-2). It reads just like a history book, with footnotes and everything. Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/14 "2012-05-09T00:50:42Z")
I loved \*\*Guns of the South \*\*when I read it. But I read it when I was 16. Does it hold up for adult readers? I didn’t read this myself, and therefore don’t know the title or author, but maybe one of you does: does anyone know what alt history (probably fantasy) novel has the unlikely sub-premise that New Hampshire is the capital of the US, which in turn is a French…uh, what’s Canada to England again? Anyway, that sort of political relationship. Little Nemo, that sounds like the made up card game they were making fun of, then all bought, on the Big Bang Theory 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/15 "2012-05-09T00:54:02Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > Are there any strange alternative history books that read more like actual history books than conventional novels? I like the idea of the genre, but I’d rather focus on the global picture than get bogged down in character drama. The excerpt of the fictional history book in _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ was really interesting to me. I read a lot of such excerpts (chapter headings, mainly) and end-of-the-book notes in S.M. Stirling’s [Domination](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Domination) series. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/16 "2012-05-09T00:55:05Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I didn’t read this myself, and therefore don’t know the title or author, but maybe one of you does: does anyone know what alt history (probably fantasy) novel has the unlikely sub-premise that New Hampshire is the capital of the US, which in turn is a French…uh, what’s Canada to England again? Polite but not demonstrative. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/17 "2012-05-09T00:59:21Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > Are there any strange alternative history books that read more like actual history books than conventional novels? I like the idea of the genre, but I’d rather focus on the global picture than get bogged down in character drama. The excerpt of the fictional history book in _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ was really interesting to me. Greenhill published a series of AH books by historians that were “non-fiction”. The list of them is [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhill%27s_Alternate_Decisions). They’re out of print but most of them are available on Amazon in cheap used copies. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/18 "2012-05-09T00:59:59Z")
**Ryan** , just read _Flashman_ and be done with it. You are going to be reading all of the books eventually. Might as well start now. On other news, try _Peshawar Lancers_ or _Conquistador_ by S.M. Stirling. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/19 "2012-05-09T01:01:09Z")
I highly recommend Phil Dick’s _The Man In The High Castle_. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Sniveling\_Mess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@A\_Sniveling\_Mess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Sniveling_Mess)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330/20 "2012-05-09T01:14:40Z")
This thread has gotten more replies than I expected.Thanks for the help everyone! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-alternative-history-novels/621330.md?page=2)