# Strange "-ar" suffix in "liar". Other examples? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 7, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078 "2011-05-07T17:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Billy-o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Billy-o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy-o)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/1 "2011-05-07T17:46:43Z")
I was thinking about the etymology of words like “executor” and “bettor” that use the suffix “-or” to denote the person who performs a verb, instead of the more usual “-er”. For some reason, it’s never occured to me that “liar” has an even more peculiar construction. Does anyone know the etymology of “liar”? And are there other examples of words with an “-ar” ending? I can’t think of any, but you may do better since I’ve had too many beers and you haven’t. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/2 "2011-05-07T18:14:22Z")
Peculiar? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/3 "2011-05-07T18:15:29Z")
He’s looking for agent nouns. There’s _beggar_. I don’t hink _burglar_ counts, despite the humorous back-formation _burgle_. Good question. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/4 "2011-05-07T18:17:24Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > He’s looking for nouns. Tar? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/5 "2011-05-07T18:21:01Z")
OK, agent nouns, as I later edited ;). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/6 "2011-05-07T18:30:12Z")
According to the OED, the -ar suffix is > [@OED](#): > > Casual variant of -er suffix1, -or suffix, suffix of agent, and -er suffix1 suffix of comparative. Very common in north. dial., as syngar singer, forebear predecessor, soutar sutor; hear higher. And in modern English in beggar, liar, pedlar. Probably imitating the refashioned scholar, vicar, pillar for earlier scoler, viker, piler: see -ar suffix1, and -ar suffix2, above. So you have beggar, scholar, pillar, and vicar, though they originally ended in -er. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/7 "2011-05-07T18:55:45Z")
I don’t think _scholar_, _pillar_, or \*vicar \*count, though, because they are not derived directly from verbs. A scholar doesn’t schol, a pillar doesn’t pill, and a vicar doesn’t vic. Most agent nouns end in -er or -or, rather than -ar. ---
**Author:** ![Billy-o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Billy-o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy-o)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/8 "2011-05-07T19:17:54Z")
Ooh, beggar and pedlar are excellent examples! And now I’ve learned a new phrase: “agent noun”. Thanks, **Ximenean**! ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/9 "2011-05-07T19:22:06Z")
Bursar? And now I want to use Agent Noun as my Doper name! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/10 "2011-05-07T19:24:20Z")
A word ending with -ar is a sure sign of a loan word from Norse, since the Vikings were pretty good pirrrrrrrates 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Euryphaessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Euryphaessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euryphaessa)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/11 "2011-05-07T19:58:32Z")
Somewhat off-topic, but regarding agent nouns ending in -or, I was taught that if you can take the root word and make it end in -ion, the agent noun will end in -or. For example, direction-\>director, edition-\>editor. There are, of course, exceptions, but it works a lot of the time. ---
**Author:** ![wellanuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@wellanuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wellanuff)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/12 "2011-05-07T21:31:59Z")
Registrar ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/13 "2011-05-07T21:43:35Z")
Exemplar. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/14 "2011-05-07T21:45:15Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > According to the OED, the -ar suffix is > > > [@OED](#): > > > > Very common in north. dial. How about Sarah Michelle Gellar – from a northern Yiddish dialect, no doubt. געללאַר אַנשטאָט פון געללער ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/15 "2011-05-07T22:05:34Z")
Only when she is rocking some Dr. Scholls gel insoles. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/16 "2011-05-07T22:47:40Z")
Templar? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/17 "2011-05-07T22:58:59Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > A scholar doesn’t schol, … Yes, he or she does. He or she schools (educates) him or herself. (Probably from the old French _escoler_). ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/18 "2011-05-07T23:08:34Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Yes, he or she does. He or she schools (educates) him or herself. (Probably from the old French _escoler_). But I think that “schooler” would be the agent noun derived from the verb “school”, and it would have to mean someone who schools somebody else, rather than somebody who is schooled, otherwise they would be the patient, not the agent. “Scholar” is closely related to “school”, true, but in my book that does make it an agent noun. ---
**Author:** ![booklover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@booklover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklover)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/19 "2011-05-08T00:19:19Z")
I thought of friar, but it does not fit the “agent noun” description since it’s derived from frere. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-ar-suffix-in-liar-other-examples/581078/20 "2011-05-08T00:39:36Z")
> [@Euryphaessa](#): > > Somewhat off-topic, but regarding agent nouns ending in -or, I was taught that if you can take the root word and make it end in -ion, the agent noun will end in -or. For example, direction-\>director, edition-\>editor. There are, of course, exceptions, but it works a lot of the time. lets try it out alligator \> allegation actor \> action equator \> equation hey, it works.