# Strange Bedfellows: Is the GOP splitting the sheets? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098 "2005-10-20T16:14:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/21 "2005-10-20T19:22:15Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Had she said earlier that she didn’t support gay rights? Did you miss the “She said she did not support the repeal of the Texas sodomy law” part? She also told the Dallas Eagle Forum that she opposed employment and accomodations non-discrimiantion laws that protect people in with AIDS “and those perceived to have AIDS.” ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/22 "2005-10-20T19:35:12Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > If you look at what the Bush administration has actually delivered instead of the things it just talk about, you’ll discover its real base - the wealthy. Didn’t Bush admit that himself: [“Some call you the elite; I call you my base”](http://slate.msn.com/id/1006324/) It was supposed to be a joke, I know ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/23 "2005-10-20T19:37:26Z")
Well, I guess it’s possible to say that gays should have the same civil rights as straights and still support the Texas sodomy law. (I’m pretty sure Texas banned both heterosexual and homosexual sodomy, didn’t it?) I wasn’t aware of her comments to the Eagle Forum. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/24 "2005-10-20T19:40:07Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Well, I guess it’s possible to say that gays should have the same civil rights as straights and still support the Texas sodomy law. (I’m pretty sure Texas banned both heterosexual and homosexual sodomy, didn’t it?) I think so . . . most “anti-sodomy” laws do . . . but remember, heterosexuals get to choose from a slightly longer menu; pretty much any kind of intimate contact two persons of the same sex can have would be defined as “sodomy” under such laws. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/25 "2005-10-20T20:10:58Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I think **Debaser** meant it’s not blindly partisan. Republicans aren’t just supporting Miers because a Republican president appointed her…they’re debating whether or not she’d be a good jurist. Exactly. It’s not the typical Republican vs Democrat partisan stuff. It’s not even the typical Moderate Republican vs Religious Right Republican stuff. [Ann Coulter](http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi) hates Meirs because she’s not qualified, but she does think Miers is conservative: > [@](#): > > From the beginning of this nightmare, I have taken it as a given that Miers will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. I assume that’s why Bush nominated her. (It certainly wasn’t her resume.) Pity no one told him there are scads of highly qualified judicial nominees who would also have voted against Roe. Wasn’t it Harriet Miers’ job to tell him that? Hey, wait a minute … [Newt Gingrich](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.gingrich07oct07,1,6533234.story?coll=bal-oped-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true) thinks that Miers will be a good traditionalist conservative judge because he trusts Bush. > [@](#): > > With the president’s knowledge of Ms. Miers, his stated commitment to rebalancing the judiciary and his conservative record - not only in appointing judges but on big decisions in general - conservatives should feel comfortable in taking the president at his word that he has just now delivered another nominee in that tradition. [Peggy Noonan](http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110007363) thinks that Bush made a mistake by picking Miers because she’s too unknown and it was bound to anger his conservative base. > [@](#): > > …the Miers pick was another administration misstep. The president misread the field, the players, their mood and attitude. He called the play, they looked up from the huddle and balked. And debated. And dissed. Momentum was lost. The quarterback looked foolish. [Pat Buchanan](http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46648) thinks that Miers isn’t enough of a constructionist and was a cowardly choice. > [@](#): > > In choosing Miers, the president passed over outstanding judges and proven constitutionalists like Michael Luttig of the Fourth Circuit and Sam Alito of the Third. And if he could not take the heat from the first lady, and had to name a woman, what was wrong with U.S. appellate court judges Janice Rogers Brown, Priscilla Owen and Edith Jones? > > [snip] > > Bush had a chance for greatness in remaking the Supreme Court, a chance to succeed where his Republican predecessors from Nixon to his father all failed. He instinctively recoiled from it. He blew it. His only hope now is that Harriet Miers, if confirmed, will not vote like the lady she replaced, or worse, like his father’s choice who also had “no paper trail,” David Souter. * * * I love this stuff. These people are all conservatives, but they all have different takes on Miers as Bush’s SCOTUS pick. If you read these columns in their entirety, it’s clear that there is a true debate of ideas going on. This is very healthy for the Republican party, IMO. I know that in order to be effective the executive branch must all be pulling in the same direction so to speak. Every administration does this, and Bush has mastered it. That’s fine, but it also comes at a price. In picking loyal cronies and not allowing alternative viewpoints, Bush’s administration has developed a sort of tunnel vision. I’m glad that notable conservatives of all stripes are out there in the battleground of ideas hashing out all this stuff about Miers and other issues. I just hope Bush is paying attention. He still has time. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/26 "2005-10-20T21:25:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ya think? Black Democrats are in the same boat as religious-right Republicans. They know their vote is taken for granted and they get little in return, but where else are they going to go? Same with left-progressive Democrats and the labor unions. We all know the DLC’s POV predominates, that Howard Dean is the most progressive voice we can hope for in party leadership and he ain’t all that progressive. But what else can we do but support the Dems? Our current electoral laws and systems make a third-party route futile. Er…huh?? There is nothing intrinsically opposite between Blacks and the Republican Party…in fact, I happen to know several black Republicans. I even know a few Hispanic Republicans (my dad for one). From what I could see more Blacks and Hispanics voted Republican in the last election than had in the past (could be wrong there…going on memory). Even if I am wrong there is still nothing inherent that prevents minorities from voting either Republican or Democrat (if we leave aside your class/race warfare stuff for a moment and don’t talk dialectic 😉 ). You are making an assumption (blacks can’t/won’t vote Republican because it’s not in their best interest to do so) based on your world view. The same can’t be said though for either the radical/socialist left or the religious right though. They really HAVE no place else to go unless they choose not to vote or throw their vote away to a third party. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/27 "2005-10-20T22:53:14Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > This happened because the Democrats chased away nearly all of its conservatives and far too many of its moderates. The fringe elements left behind are at a competitive disadvantage. You cannot seriously believe that the Democrats have moved too far to the _left_. If anything, they’ve gone right. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/28 "2005-10-20T23:43:22Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Maybe, but what are they going to do? Start their own party? We know from American electoral history how well that works. Join the Democrats? The Democratic party tends to be more friendly to the idea of gay rights than the Republicans, and the only prominent pro-life Democrat I can think of is Bob Casey. The one thing they can stop doing is giving money. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/29 "2005-10-20T23:48:39Z")
To address the popular notion the OP uses that there was a stable moderate Republican Party until Reagan allowed the Religious Right & various conservative factions to dominate it- I suggest reading William F. Buckley’s GETTING IT RIGHT -a novel set around the time of the Goldwater Campaign in which the GOP was up for grabs between the Rockefeller Establishment, the respectable National Review conservatives, the Ayn Randians & the John Birchers, as well as various subgroups & personality cults. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/30 "2005-10-21T00:01:20Z")
For me, the perception in the OP that the GOP is splitting up is based mostly on the novelty of hearing the debates over Ms. Meirs aired publicly. The GOP/Right has been very effective at maintaining close ranks and singing from one sheet of music. Whenever we see something that does not match that model, some perceive vast fissures and violent eruptions. I’m more inclined to agree that the internal debating indicates some maturity and certain kind of strength. That said, it will take a lot of effort and inventiveness by the religious political leaders to convince their flock to hang tight if the Meirs situation doesn’t pan out for them exactly the way they would like. The potential for them waking up to being used is a true risk. Would they steer towards the Democrats? Unlikely. Would they count noses and figure they can create their own party? hmmmmmm ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/31 "2005-10-21T00:26:15Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Well, I guess it’s possible to say that gays should have the same civil rights as straights and still support the Texas sodomy law. (I’m pretty sure Texas banned both heterosexual and homosexual sodomy, didn’t it?) You’d think so, but surprisingly, no. > [@](#): > > § 21.06. HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an > offense if he engages in deviate sexual intercourse with another > individual of the same sex. [Texas Penal Code § 21.06](http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/petoc.html). Still on the books and everything. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/32 "2005-10-21T01:38:38Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You are making an assumption (blacks can’t/won’t vote Republican because it’s not in their best interest to do so) based on your world view. No, I am assuming that, since most African-Americans have voted Democrat at least since Roosevelt, they themselves have perceived it is in their best interest to do so. Apart from that: Even today, most blacks are poor or working-poor (their median income is 55% of whites – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African\_Americans#Contemporary\_issues](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans#Contemporary_issues)). And I do know that the Republican agenda has nothing of value to offer to poor or working-poor people of any race. (Not that the Dems have much more, nowadays.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/33 "2005-10-21T01:54:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I am assuming that, since most African-Americans have voted Democrat at least since Roosevelt, they themselves have perceived it is in their best interest to do so. Well, times are a changin…least thats what I hear. The Republicans certainly seem to be at least attempting to reach out to the minorities. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And I do know that the Republican agenda has nothing of value to offer to poor or working-poor people of any race. You know this, ehe? 🙂 Leaving that aside, do you see the difference between the various minorities (or the poor) and what I was saying about the radical/socialist left and the religious right? While YOU may not think the Republicans have anything to offer the poor of any race (I could name several things, and so could you if you were being honest…hint, think about what poor people have in common besides being poor), the radical/socialist left has NO other choice…they will get absolutely nothing out of going Republican. Same goes for the religious right…while they may get lip service from the Republicans they’d get scorn or worse from the Democrats. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/34 "2005-10-21T02:04:58Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, times are a changin…least thats what I hear. The Republicans certainly seem to be at least attempting to reach out to the minorities. Hence [Bush’s 2% post Katrina approval rating amongst blacks](http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/12954452.htm)? He’s doing a heck of a job! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/35 "2005-10-21T02:08:35Z")
Well, there are two things there Squink…two distinct things if I may. Bush…and the Republican party. They aren’t the same thing…right? I think Bush’s approval rate among REPUBLICAN’S has dropped if you want to look at things closely. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/36 "2005-10-21T02:15:00Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Maybe, but what are they going to do? Start their own party? We know from American electoral history how well that works. Join the Democrats? The Democratic party tends to be more friendly to the idea of gay rights than the Republicans, and the only prominent pro-life Democrat I can think of is Bob Casey. Senate Minority leader Harry Reid (D-Nevada) is pro-life. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/37 "2005-10-21T02:24:40Z")
To me it doesn’t seem like they’re coming apart so much as rediscovering their brains. No political movement can remain healthy when all its members are in lock-step. Monoculture leaves everyone susceptible to the same sorts of diseases. Some people are just waking up to the fact they don’t have to catch the same disease Bush has got. If anything, some dissent should rescue the party. If some wingnuts take their marbles home, so be it. The party, and by extension, the country, are a heck of a lot better off. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/38 "2005-10-21T02:38:58Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > …two distinct things if I may. Bush…and the Republican party. They aren’t the same thing…right? Did not Bush select the leader of the RNC, Ken Mehlman? Mehlman _was_ Bush’s campaign manager after all. Does not Mehlman rabidly support Bush by releasing a steady stream of pro-Bush talking points? Do many republicans _not_ support Mehlman, the RNC, its efforts, and through them the president? The latest polls suggest only a statistically insignificant decay in support for Bush among the republican base [(from 85% to 84%)](http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1129608096.shtml). That’s more consistant with Bush **being** the republican party than with a party which exists **despite** having an unpopular head. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/39 "2005-10-21T02:48:57Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > This happened because the Democrats chased away nearly all of its conservatives and far too many of its moderates. I am curious who you think makes up the Democratic party. Whoever it is, they got 48% of the vote last election. From your appraisal, I can only conclude that nearly half the country is far left wing socialists. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098/40 "2005-10-21T04:12:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You cannot seriously believe that the Democrats have moved too far to the _left_. If anything, they’ve gone right. Since when? I’m thinking long term here. The Democratic Party made a slight rightward tack with Bill Clinton. That doesn’t erase the forty plus years of leftward Democratic drift since Kennedy’s death, does it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-bedfellows-is-the-gop-splitting-the-sheets/327098.md?page=3)