# Strange Dewey Decimal order **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 21, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-dewey-decimal-order/280994 "2004-12-21T16:18:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-dewey-decimal-order/280994/1 "2004-12-21T16:18:21Z")
I was looking in the European Travel section of my local library yesterday. This is the order in which the books were arranged: Scotland Ireland England Wales Germany Austria Czech Republic Poland Hungary France Italy Spain Portugal Latvia Russia Georgia Ukrania Estonia Lithuania Norway Sweden Denmark Finland Iceland Holland Belgium Switzerland Greece Istanbul (Turkey) Croatia Slovenia Bulgaria I would have expected them to be in some sort of geographical order, or even alphabetical. It occurred to me that the order might reflect Dewey’s 19th-century bias, putting the British Isles first, followed by Germany and Austria, etc. But this doesn’t make sense either; Why should Poland trump France? Why should Iceland come before Holland, Belgium, Switzerland and Greece? Can anyone explain the logic (if any) of this order? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-dewey-decimal-order/280994/2 "2004-12-21T16:49:11Z")
A lot of it really is because the map of Europe was drawn entirely differently in 1894, when Dewey first established his divisions. The major powers were the UK, Germany, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, France, Italy, Spain , and Russia. If you look at it that way the connections make more sense. I checked my 8th edition (abridged) of the Dewey Decimal Classification, from 1959. It doesn’t break out the travel section for Europe, 914, but it does go into detail for European history, which is the 940s. Here’s how it breaks down: 941 Scotland 941.5 Ireland 942 England 942.9 Wales 943 Germany 943.1 Prussia (East Germany was put here later) 943.6 Austria (includes Lichtenstein, which used to be part of the empire) 943.7 Czechoslovakia 943.8 Poland 943.9 Hungary, Transylvania, Slavonia, Croatia, Bosnia, and Herzegovina (why Hungary is included with the Balkan states when it was nominally co-equal with Austria I can’t understand) 944 France 945 Italy 946 Spain 946.9 Portugal 947 Russia 947.1 Finland (didn’t become independent until 1917, after the Russian revolution) 948 Scandinavia 948.1 Norway 948.5 Sweden 948.9 Denmark 949 Other areas of Europe 949.1 Iceland 949.2 Netherlands 949.3 Belgium 949.35 Luxembourg 949.4 Switzerland 949.5 Greece 949.6 Balkan States (didn’t we already do this? Nope. Includes “Balkan Peninsula, Danube River, Turkey in Europe, Ottoman Empire 1288-1918”) 949.65 Albania 949.7 Yugoslavia (created after WWII and subsumes some of the Balkans) 949.77 Bulgaria 949.8 Rumania 949.85 Soviet Moldavia 949.9 Islands of the Aegean Sea This isn’t exactly equivalent to your list, but revisions keep being necessary as the map of Europe shifts. And it’s clear that the perspective was purely Anglo-Saxon, dealing with the perceived importance of the nation and to a lesser extent the comparative number of books that would be placed in each division and subdivision. Dewey was a prisoner of his time and perspective, even when it came to the U.S. How else to explain that the 19th century is covered by 973.4, 973.5, 973.6, 973.7 and 973.8, while the 20th century, which we now know to include many times as many books, is completely subsumed until 973.9 and no place whatsoever is provided for the 21th century and beyond? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-dewey-decimal-order/280994/3 "2004-12-21T17:09:50Z")
Most of the order listed above was developed by the second edition of Dewey, in 1885 (only the broad outline was in the first edition, in 1876). However, there has been some movement since then, the most significant being that Finland has moved from being part of Russia to being part of Scandinavia (Finland was part of Russia from 1809 to 1917). Other changes reflect the break-up of the Austro-Hungarian empire, and changes with the former Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia. So it reflects geography of the late 19th century. However, it has been updated to reflect modern goegraphy – but trying to avoid relocating material, because relocactions always cause proiblems for libraries. The second point is that Dewey has a decimal notation, so that each topic gets divided up into 9 sections. In this case, you have 8 broad areas of Europe, followed by a miscellaneous section with everything not in the rest – which is a rather mixed bag, including the Low Countries, Switzerland, and southeastern Europe. In detail (using the history numbers in 941 to 949 because that was where the details were first developed – the geigraohy numbers in 914.1 to 914.9 are parallel to them): Scotland – 941 in edition 2, and 941.1 now, because 941 is now used for the UK as a whole Ireland – 941.5 in edition 2: note there has been a litle readjustment, because part of Ireland is now independent England – 942 Wales – 942.9 Germany – 943 Austria – 943.6 Czech Republic – 943.7 (It was Bohemia, etc., back in edition 2) Poland – 943.8 (It was a lot smaller back in 1885 than it is now) Hungary – 943.9 France – 944 Italy – 945 Spain – 946 Portugal – 946.9 Latvia – This isn’t the right place, since it was 947.4 in edition 2, as part of the “Baltic provinces” of Russia, and it’s now 947.96 Russia – 947 Georgia – 947.9 in edition 2, as part of “Caucasia”, and now 947.58 Ukrania – 947.7 (Called “Little Russia” in edition 2) Estonia – 947.4 in edition 2, and 947.98 now Lithuania – 947.4 in edition 2, and 947.93 now (so the order or Estonia and Lithuania doesn’t match Dewey here) Norway – 948.1 (948 is Scandinavia) Sweden – 948.5 Denmark – 948.9 Finland – 947.1 in edition 2, and 947.97 now (because there was a problem with all the other notation in 948 being used up for parts of Norway and Sweden) Iceland – 949.1 Holland – 949.2 Belgium – 949.3 Switzerland – 949.4 Greece – 949.5 (but it was called “Byzantine Empire and Modern Greece” in edition 2) Istanbul (Turkey) – 949.6 (the rest or Turkey is in Asia) Croatia – in 943.6 in edition 2 (when it was part of Austria), and 949.72 now Slovenia – in 943.6 in edition 2 (when it was part of Austria), and 949.73 now Bulgaria – 949.7 in edition 2, and 949.9 now But there’s another reason for some of the break up. Melvil Dewey tried to use the same notation to mean similar hings in different parts of the classification. If you look at the language break-up, you can see some parallels: 420 – English language 430 – German language 440 – French language 450 – Italian language 460 – Spanish language 469 – Portuguese language That is obviously parallel with 942, 943, 944, 945, 946 and 946.9. (However, the parallel structure breaks down with 470 for Latin and 480 for Greek). This means that you can associate 5 meaning Italy in 945 with 5 meaning Italian in 450. However, there are costs. It means that the structure of the clkassification of languages is imperfect (apart from its bias towards languages found in late 19th-century American libraries), and the structure for European geography is imperfect – in an ideal structure, the Low Countries would be between Germany and France. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-dewey-decimal-order/280994/4 "2004-12-21T17:17:58Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Dewey was a prisoner of his time and perspective, even when it came to the U.S. How else to explain that the 19th century is covered by 973.4, 973.5, 973.6, 973.7 and 973.8, while the 20th century, which we now know to include many times as many books, is completely subsumed until 973.9 and no place whatsoever is provided for the 21th century and beyond? Just a small quibble: 973.93 is provided for the hiostory of the US in “the 21th century and beyond”. However, **Exapno Mapcase** is right in pointing out that Dewey gave promininence in the notation to late 19th century concerns, and later things have had to be fitted into an existing structure somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-dewey-decimal-order/280994/5 "2004-12-21T17:36:59Z")
I’m sure it is now, but as late as 1959 there was no such mention. U.S. History stops with 973.921 Administration of Eisenhower, 1953- I’ve used the Dewey system all my life (yes, I had a book in my hands while the doctor spanked me at birth) and I’m comfortable thinking in it. But it’s a terrible system in many ways. Retrofitting the future into the system’s extreme limitations is always awkward. And made much worse by the ridiculous inconsistency of the catalogers (there can be no justification for cataloging the paperback edition differently than the hardback edition!), but that’s a rant for another day. BTW, I need to correct myself. 1894 is the date of the first edition of the Abridged edition, not the original full listing, as **Giles** properly points out. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-dewey-decimal-order/280994/6 "2004-12-21T17:44:10Z")
The history numbers are also the basis for much of the geographic qualifiers for other subjects. History’s of the United States economy are 330.973, of the UK 330.942. Dewey has a very hard time dealing with books on computer science topics. Depending on the library, a lot of them get stuck in the 000s (General Knowledge), but other libraries have tried to place books about computers and programming and applications in areas depending upon what sort of person would be most interested in it. So we put books on programming languages and operating systems in Science (in the math section), books on popular office applications (such as word processing and spreadsheets) in business books, desktop publishing in Literature, and things like Photoshop with art books. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-dewey-decimal-order/280994/7 "2004-12-21T17:46:12Z")
Another big flaw of Dewey is that in the religion section, 90% of it is reserved for Christianity. Everything else gets jammed into 290-299. Because there aren’t many Jews, Buddhist, Moslems, Hindus, etc.