# Strange mispronunciations by black newscasters **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108 "2003-07-03T20:35:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/21 "2003-07-04T17:03:35Z")
> [@](#): > > And here in the Midwest, most of the people who have to change their speech are black, and they have to go to great lengths not to pronounce certain words the way they’ve always pronounced them. I’m finding it hard to believe that only black people have to change their speech. Are you saying black people are the only ones who “mispronounce” in the Midwest? About this “mispronounciation” thing…it’s just an accent thing. Go down to Savannah and you’ll hear everyone pronounce “it” as “iiiiiit”. Native Atlantans–white or black–pronounce “hill” and “heel” the exact same way. No one is confused down there. Only people who are bold enough to think their way is the right way would be confused. Midwesterners (particularly of the Indiana/Illionois variety) say “dial” instead of “doll” and “clahset” instead of “closet”. I’d like to think my pronounciations are the “right” way, but if people are able to communicate just fine the Midwestern way, then how can I say it’s “wrong”? I know the difference between “hill” and “heel” but for the life of me I cannot say “hill” without stretching it out. It doesn’t sound right to my ear. To me, it’s easier saying “heeeeel”. If that makes me wrong, then I don’t wanna be right. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/22 "2003-07-04T18:33:54Z")
Oh jeez, do I have to explain myself AGAIN? I know this is going to open a whole new can of worms, but here goes: Suppose you have an apple and an orange, and you were brought up to call them both “apples.” Obviously, you know they’re two different kinds of fruit and know what the difference is, but you refer to them both with the name “apple.” Then you go to journalism school where they try to shove “standard” English down your throat, and some professor teaches you that the one with the pimply rind and segments is called an “orange.” From that day on, you try very very hard not to call this an “apple” - so hard, in fact, that you wind up calling them \*\*both \*\* “oranges,” and never use the word “apple” again. I’m simply observing that there are “apple-apple” people and “orange-orange” people, as opposed to “standard” English, which is “apple-orange.” Does this explain what I’m saying, or does it just confuse things more? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/23 "2003-07-04T18:44:14Z")
It’s not an apt analogy simply because “orange” and “apple” are totally different words and concepts. Interchanging usage of these words would confuse everyone with a brain. Perhaps that’s why people can get away with saying “heel” for “hill” and “steel” for “still”. The meaning is clear regardless of how you say it. The meaning would not be clear if I’m calling oranges apples and apples apples. ---
**Author:** ![Sivalensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Sivalensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sivalensis)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/24 "2003-07-04T18:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FranticMad \* > \*\*The brain learns phonemes (complex sounds in spoken languages) at a young age. Other sounds get filtered out as the brain adapts to the language it hears. If you didn’t grow up hearing some sounds, then you may never hear them. > > Adult speakers of English literally cannot hear certain sounds spoken by native French speakers – unless they grew up hearing French. I’m sure this is especially true with Asian languages. > > I lived in one part of the US where people could not hear my real-life name correctly. No matter how many times I repeated it, they could not hear the vowels, and they could never say my name correctly. In their culture, the exact combination of phonemes in my name was never spoken. As adults, their brains had passed out of the “critical period” when neurons can learn to perceive new sounds. > > [cite](http://www.wm.edu/SO/monitor/fall99/paper1.htm) \*\* I think I’ll have to take issue with this. I agree that yes, once you’ve learned a certain phonemic set of rules, then it’s very difficult to hear and pronounce correctly. But honestly, I think that also has a lot to do with innate language ability. What is the age at which you pass out of this critical period? I took French in high school and my accent was nothing to write home about. But then I majored in it in college and I lived there several times and my accent is now excellent (and I’ve heard this from French people, I’m not just blowing my own horn). I know a lot of Americans who can’t distinguish between the “ou” (oo) sound and the “u” (not possible to type pronunciation) sound in French, and can’t reproduce it accurately. But that doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Sorry for the slight hijack. Back to the op - I can think of a parallel here with the pet peeve that many of us have…I and me. People used to use “me” for everything, including the subject, and that’s been the target of many an english teacher. So now, instead of being able to distinguish where “I” and “me” are correctly supposed to go, many people just use “I” instead. Oranges and oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Sivalensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Sivalensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sivalensis)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/25 "2003-07-04T18:52:06Z")
Acourse, I was talking about accent, not fluency. That’s a whole nother ball of wax. Mother tongue interferes with fluency and proper word usage all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@Dragonstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonstar)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/26 "2003-07-04T19:15:45Z")
There’s a wonderful exhibit of photographs from a black photographer from Memphis, who chronicled the Civil Rights movement. He’s 81, and still going strong. There was an article in the paper today, featuring an awesome photo of a woman who got her voter registration card in 1966. She looked absolutely ecstatic. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/27 "2003-07-04T19:17:18Z")
There are a wide variety of English dialects spoken in various regions of America (not to mention Great Britain, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc.). D.A.R.E. (the Dictionary of American Regional English, not the kids-against-drugs campaign) details a lot of regional dialectal usages. I recall reading with interest several years ago that the native Californian dialect (now nearing extinction under the pressure of immigration) renders “ten” and “tin” and other words containing short E’s and I’s so close to identically that the sharp listener from elsewhere cannot detect a difference. In much of America, what is referred to as the Urban Black Dialect has evolved from the past tendencies of (a) urban whites to ghettoize blacks, and (b) urban blacks to keep to themselves, partially in response to (a). The beautiful Old-South drawl of the Eastern Carolinas dialect, thick enough to spread with a knife, is still quite common where I live, though it’s almost never heard in Raleigh, only 25 miles away – and both blacks and whites use it indiscriminately. At the store up the road recently, my purchase came to $13.90, and I would have sworn the clerk said, “There’s ten ninety,” instead of “Thirteen ninety.” (Interestingly, a friend of my wife’s is a black woman in late middle age – a Cary resident born and raised in Boston – and she speaks with an accent you would swear, without seeing her as she speaks, was a classic Kennedy propah Bahstonian.) ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/28 "2003-07-04T19:19:24Z")
I’m white and was born in Mississippi. My mother was born and raised in the smallest of small Mississippi towns, Prairie, Mississippi - as well as my blood aunt and uncles. I say “still” for “steel” – and you would give yourself away as an outsider if you pronounced differently ----- I also say “ceement” (see - ment) for “cement” - 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/29 "2003-07-04T19:56:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panache45 \* > \*\*Ok, what cracks me up is not the speech itself, but the possible reasons behind it. Newspeople are trained to lose any regional or ethnic dialects, and to speak a standard Midwestern English. And here in the Midwest, most of the people who have to change their speech are black, and they have to go to great lengths not to pronounce certain words the way they’ve always pronounced them. And I think, in an effort to do so, they actually wind up mispronouncing words they would usually pronounce correctly. And those are the \*\*only \*\* words I hear them mispronouncing. That’s what I think is funny, that in an effort to lose their ethnic speech, they erroneously pronounce “steel” and “wheel” like “still” and “will.” > > I suppose if I lived in the South, I would hear white people doing the same thing, possibly for the same reason. \*\* I seem to remember that this kind of socially-induced vowel compensation is a valid topic in linguistics. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/30 "2003-07-04T20:30:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panache45 \* > Oh jeez, do I have to explain myself AGAIN? I know this is going to open a whole new can of worms, but here goes: > > Suppose you have an apple and an orange, and you were brought up to call them both “apples.” Obviously, you know they’re two different kinds of fruit and know what the difference is, but you refer to them both with the name “apple.” Then you go to journalism school where they try to shove “standard” English down your throat, and some professor teaches you that the one with the pimply rind and segments is called an “orange.” From that day on, you try very very hard not to call this an “apple” - so hard, in fact, that you wind up calling them \*\*both \*\* “oranges,” and never use the word “apple” again. So you think that these people used to pronounce _still_ as _steel_, but now they pronounce _still_ as _steel_ as a hypercorrection? (Please answer me. I’d like to make sure I have it right.) If so, am I the only one who thinks that doesn’t sound right? _I steel can’t find the wheel to live._ That doesn’t strike me as something a black or a Midwesterner might say. Maybe Cheech Marin. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/31 "2003-07-04T20:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Achernar (corrected)_ > So you think that these people used to pronounce _still_ as _steel_, but now they pronounce _steel_ as _still_ as a hypercorrection? (Please answer me. I’d like to make sure I have it right.) If so, am I the only one who thinks that doesn’t sound right? _I steel can’t find the wheel to live._ That doesn’t strike me as something a black or a Midwesterner might say. Maybe Cheech Marin. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/32 "2003-07-04T21:12:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by InLikeFlynn \* > **You can take the negro out of the ghetto but you can’t take the ghetto out of the negro!!** Your racist comments are not appreciated here. Do not repeat the mistake. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/33 "2003-07-04T23:29:19Z")
I’ve travelled all over the US and for a country that size, although I do notice the difference between East Coast/West Coast/South dialects, they are far less pronounced than in Britain. I live about 50 miles north of London and speak with a Estuary English/North London dialect. Glaswegian is almost unintelligable to me… Geordie (Newcastle upon Tyne)can be as well. For a country our size there’s an amazing range of dialects… As for the OP, he’s obviously never listened to Trevor McDonald…\* \*Trevor McDonald: Black UK newsreader who speaks the Queen’s English better than the Queen. A national institution. Fab moustache as well. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/34 "2003-07-04T23:39:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mascaroni \* > \*\*Fab moustache as well. \*\* I meant that in a manly heterosexual sort of way…:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/35 "2003-07-04T23:59:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by InLikeFlynn \* > **It’s an obvious example of inferior education for the po people. That black newscaster’s mother, father and teacher probably all say** “still”_\* and\*\* “will” \*\*so how can you xpect Leroy to talk any different. It’s **Axactly** like an accent **Axcept** it’s not geographic it’s demographic. Let me **Axe** you this question. Have you ever known of someone that totally lost their accent? It’s a difficult thing to do. You can take the negro out of the ghetto but you can’t take the ghetto out of the negro!! \*\* Sounds more like a Pittsburgh accent, “axually.” In Pittsburgh, we talk about dem Stillers playin’ dahntahn and we go to primanny brudders for a sammish and some ahrn. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/36 "2003-07-05T00:01:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by InLikeFlynn \* > **It’s an obvious example of inferior education for the po people. That black newscaster’s mother, father and teacher probably all say** “still”_\* and\*\* “will” \*\*so how can you xpect Leroy to talk any different. It’s **Axactly** like an accent **Axcept** it’s not geographic it’s demographic. Let me **Axe** you this question. Have you ever known of someone that totally lost their accent? It’s a difficult thing to do. You can take the negro out of the ghetto but you can’t take the ghetto out of the negro!! \*\* :rolleyes: Sounds more like a Pittsburgh accent, “axually.” In Pixburgh, we talk about dem Stillers playin’ dahntahn and we go to primanny brudders for a sammish and some ahrn. So maybe the guy’s from Pixburgh an at. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/37 "2003-07-05T00:14:54Z")
Here’s a conversation between myself and a old black friend. AMBOOLANTZ No, say I, try this…AM AM BULE BULE LENTZ LENTZ (me) ok. good, now put them all together AMBOOLANTZ …and we fell on the floor laughing. No one , including my friend, is going to change the way that word comes out of his mouth, and you know what? I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s what makes this country great, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![thedexter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@thedexter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thedexter)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/38 "2003-07-05T00:17:32Z")
Continuing the hijack, mascaroni, I like that all the English (which is to say British) people I’ve heard say McDonald or McDonald’s say it like “mack” (hat?) instead of “mick” (using the term as a pronunciation guide for Mc…). Also, some words ending in a soft “a” have an audible “er” replacing them. It’s kind of on topic, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/39 "2003-07-05T00:53:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by doctordoowop \* > \*\*Most who “change” accents revert to more comfortable speech, when off the air. This includes whites. > > Re: steel,still et al, don’t most Americans pronounce “Mary,” “merry,” & “marry” the same? Outside of the Northeast,that is. \*\* Do people in the Northeast pronounce the differently? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/40 "2003-07-05T01:37:16Z")
After having lived in NYC for 25 years, then returning to Ohio, where I’m originally from, it’s hard for me to unlearn the “marry/merry” difference. And I refuse to pronounce “tour” as “turr” and “route” as “rowt.” Guess you can take the man out of New Yawk, but . . . . And then there’s the issue of “soda” vs. “pop.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108.md?page=3)