# Strange mispronunciations by black newscasters **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108 "2003-07-03T20:35:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/41 "2003-07-05T02:02:03Z")
Down here, my real name, **Bill** has two syllables, and in Germany my friends and family call me “Bill” with a very short **ee** sound. I call myself “Bill” like “ill” with a “B” in front of it. The same name and three different ways of pronouncing it. I realize this probably adds nothing to the OP, just wanted to say that it doesn’t upset me in the least how my name is pronounced. I just don’t want it misspelled. 😉 Q ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/42 "2003-07-05T03:48:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*:rolleyes: > > Sounds more like a Pittsburgh accent, “axually.” > > In Pixburgh, we talk about dem Stillers playin’ dahntahn and we go to primanny brudders for a sammish and some ahrn. > > So maybe the guy’s from Pixburgh an at. \*\* Maybe Philadelphia? \*\*Yo, JackiEEE! I soaked up Philly _like a sponge._ \*\* ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/43 "2003-07-05T05:24:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Do people in the Northeast pronounce the differently? As harped upon by two N’Yawk transplants I knew in Michigan, years ago: Mary: MAY ree (First syllable rhymes with the month) Marry: MA ree (The first syllable is the beginning sound of ma’am or matress, **not** mom, martyr, Maumee, or maybe) Merry: MEH ree (First syllable has beginning sound of met) ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/44 "2003-07-05T05:42:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\*Do people in the Northeast pronounce the differently? \*\* (Mary, merry, marry.) I heard a tape called The Verbal Advantage and the narrator pronounced the three words to point out the differences and I rewound several times without being able to hear it. And YET I hear the difference in the french u and oo. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > **I steel can’t find the wheel to live. That doesn’t strike me as something a black or a Midwesterner might say. Maybe Cheech Marin.** Exactly my question! I was thinking, Black Midwestern Americans must have a really weird accent. (Except I pronounced it ‘rilly wird.’) (Also, now I keep picturing a Cheech Marin repining over his lost joie de vivre.) ---
**Author:** ![jennalynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@jennalynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jennalynn)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/45 "2003-07-05T05:48:57Z")
So, can we draw any conclusions from this thread? People in different areas pronounce things differently and that is okay, even if a dictionary prefers one pronounciation over another? Language is dynamic, although changes may be hard to get used to? Rules of grammar are mutable? Or mayhap 'tis folly I presume such? Perhaps it ill behooves us to consider such? Surely 'tis the work of the devil to presume to change the laws of the books of GRAMMAR and WEBSTER? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/46 "2003-07-05T11:52:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jennalynn \* > \*\*So, can we draw any conclusions from this thread? > People in different areas pronounce things differently and that is okay, even if a dictionary prefers one pronounciation over another? > Language is dynamic, although changes may be hard to get used to? > Rules of grammar are mutable? > Or mayhap 'tis folly I presume such? Perhaps it ill behooves us to consider such? Surely 'tis the work of the devil to presume to change the laws of the books of GRAMMAR and WEBSTER? \*\* Uh, no, I don’t see any reason for you to take on the role of conclusion maker in this thread. There are legitimate reasons for applying certain standardized rules of usage and grammar in contexts like broadcast news. Your contention that “language is dynamic” and “rules of grammar are mutable” is trite in the extreme (translation: well, _duh_ :rolleyes: ) and your attempt at sarcasm is feeble. ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/47 "2003-07-05T14:07:15Z")
This may be the place to find out something I’ve long wondered about. I’m English, and whilst I can hear the variation in US accents, and have a rough idea of the differences between north and south, I have no idea at all of what would be considered a “proper”, or “high class” American accent (to equate with our “Queen’s English”). Can anyone give me an example of an American who is known all over the world, who speaks with such an accent. I have a hunch that Madonna is “well-spoken” … am I right? Julie ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/48 "2003-07-05T14:24:37Z")
Madonna’s accent is weird. She was born in Detroit and sounded like it till a few years ago. Several years _before_ she moved to the U.K., she started changing her accent. Apparently this was her own decision, because she certainly didn’t pick up the new accent from anyone she was around. Some people conjectured that she was going to a speach coach. It’s hard to say what sort of accent she was moving toward. Some people called it British, but mostly it’s just weird. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/49 "2003-07-05T15:03:19Z")
Well, _of course_, Madonna speaks well: her accent is the one God intended. (She and I grew up in the same town and went to the same grammar school several years apart and she speaks as I do.) Or, as **Wendell** has noted, that was the way she _originally_ spoke. More seriously, Madonna did grow up in a region (suburban Detroit) that shares the general dialect as the “Chicago” style of broadcasting mentioned above (as Midwestern English). I would not go so far as to claim that that dialect has the same authority as Received English, but it is true that there was a concerted effort in the middle of the 20th century to get radio and television reporters to speak in that manner, and the practice carried over, to a limited extent, to acting. As late as WWII, there were regional accents in the U.S. that were nearly mutually unintelligible and it was felt (correctly or incorrectly) that the “Chicago” pronunciation was the one that was most easily understood by everyone. It has none of the “twang” associated with the two central U.S. dialects and does not contain the drawl of the deep South. On the other hand, when encountering people from other parts of the U.S., I have often been twitted about our “strange” vocabulary and pronunciation of various words and I doubt that many people outside the Buffalo-Cleveland-Detroit-Chicago corridor actually believe that our accent is “proper,” the way that someone in Britain might acknowledge (however gudgingly) that the Received English is “proper.” In fact, in recent years the whole “Chicago” approach to broadcasting has begun to lose strength, and you can hear many more regionalisms in both the news departments and in the movies than you might have a few years ago. There is still a certain pressure to avoid the more extreme accents, but there is no longer an effort to make everyone sound as though they were raised in Highland Park, IL or Grosse Pointe, MI. For example, Dan Rather’s speech, when broadcasting, is much closer to “Chicago” than to his native Texan. At the same time, the high mobility of U.S. citizens, even more than the force of movies, radio, and TV, has tended to moderate against any strong accents. It is hard to develop and keep a dialect when it is constantly subjected to immigrants bringing in their own pronunciations and vocabulary (while one’s own citizens are moving away to export your vocabulary and pronunciation). “High class” might actually appear _outside_ the realm of “proper.” High class accents would tend to be those of the Old Money families from Boston, Phildelphia, Savannah, and Charleston. (Among the wealthiest and oldest social groups, the accent in those cities is remarkably similar (they tended to intermarry and keep their separate dialect alive and somewhat distinct from the “common” accents surrounding them.) Such accents might even sound affected to some U.S. residents.) ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/50 "2003-07-05T15:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*“High class” might actually appear _outside_ the realm of “proper.” High class accents would tend to be those of the Old Money families from Boston, Phildelphia, Savannah, and Charleston. (Among the wealthiest and oldest social groups, the accent in those cities is remarkably similar (they tended to intermarry and keep their separate dialect alive and somewhat distinct from the “common” accents surrounding them.) Such accents might even sound affected to some U.S. residents.) \*\* I think I understand … so a Boston, etc., accent would equate with the English “Sloane” accent (i.e. Sarah Ferguson), which is slightly more affected than Queen’s English. By the way, I’ve never understood “The Queen’s English” to mean as spoken by the Queen … more another name for Received Pronunciation. Correct me if I’m wrong, fellow Brits! 🙂 Julie ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/51 "2003-07-05T15:55:45Z")
> [@](#): > > originally posted by tomndebb > As harped upon by two N’Yawk transplants I knew in Michigan, years ago: > > Mary: MAY ree (First syllable rhymes with the month) Little bit off - The NY Mary starts off mare, like a female horse ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/52 "2003-07-05T16:02:42Z")
> [@](#): > > equate with the English “Sloane” accent (i.e. Sarah Ferguson), which is slightly more affected than Queen’s English I presume so, although I would guess that the “affected” part is in the ear of the hearer and not a deliberate affectation. The people who speak that way are simply speaking the language they grew up with, not making an effort to be different. ---
**Author:** ![jennalynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@jennalynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jennalynn)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/53 "2003-07-05T18:44:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*Uh, no, I don’t see any reason for you to take on the role of conclusion maker in this thread. There are legitimate reasons for applying certain standardized rules of usage and grammar in contexts like broadcast news. Your contention that “language is dynamic” and “rules of grammar are mutable” is trite in the extreme (translation: well, _duh_ :rolleyes: ) and your attempt at sarcasm is feeble. \*\* Trite and feeble. Sounds like a great name for a band. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/54 "2003-07-05T19:54:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jennalynn \* > \*\*Trite and feeble. Sounds like a great name for a band. 🆒 \*\* Or a law partnership. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/55 "2003-07-05T20:02:38Z")
Is there anything even vaguely resembling a General Question left here? ---
**Author:** ![jennalynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@jennalynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jennalynn)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/56 "2003-07-05T20:44:56Z")
I feel an uncomfortable tightening sensation coming on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/57 "2003-07-05T21:50:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shrinking Violet \* > I’m English, and whilst I can hear the variation in US accents, and have a rough idea of the differences between north and south, I have no idea at all of what would be considered a “proper”, or “high class” American accent (to equate with our “Queen’s English”). I think that if you asked most Americans to talk in a “high class” accent, they’d speak in a British accent (or their version thereof). I don’t think that Americans associate accent with class anywhere near as much as the British do; here, it’s mostly a matter of geography. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108/58 "2003-07-06T12:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **panache** : Ok, what cracks me up is not the speech itself, but the possible reasons behind it. Newspeople are trained to lose any regional or ethnic dialects, and to speak a standard Midwestern English. Midwestern dialects are the “standard” only in broadcasting. There is no “standard English dialect.” The reason that broadcast standards are Mid-Western is that that is originally where the broadcast schools were located. Recently I was on the phone with a friend that I haven’t seen in almost fifty years. We talked for two hours. When I got off the phone and began talking to my husband, I realized that I was speaking in the dialect of my childhood. People _can_ learn to change dialects. It takes practice and coaching usually. One of the most fantastic speaking voices on Broadway belongs to someone who grew up in a small town not so far from the source of my own childhood dialect. As for the racist comments on dialect, I hope that someday you have the thrill of hearing Barry Scott’s readings. If any of you watched A&E’s Fourth of July celebration from Nashville, he was the Black gentleman that had the entralled and cheering crowd on their feet – just by the sheer power of the spoken word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strange-mispronunciations-by-black-newscasters/186108.md?page=2)