# Strangest Car Dealer Experience - Did They Try and Scam Me? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642 "2016-11-21T14:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/41 "2016-11-22T00:06:57Z")
You were absolutely jerked around. This is the first I’d heard of the car dealers having their very own credit score, but dealer-instigated financing is well known to be a scam. Here’s a link to the credit score scam: > **[Lie To The Buyer About Their Credit Score Scam](https://www.carbuyingtips.com/top-10-scams/scam2.htm)** > > The Lie To The Buyer About Their Credit Score Scam explained and how to avoid it. Another link that mentions that, and also the one I’d heard of where they try to jack up the rate above what their bank will give. Say you qualify for a 5% loan, they try to convince you you can’t get any better than 7%. That 2% goes directly to the dealership: > **[The 7 Ways Dealers Can Rip You Off With Car Financing](https://www.realcartips.com/carloans/020-how-dealers-make-money-on-car-loans.shtml)** > > Learn the 4 ways dealers can make thousands off of you when getting a car loan. Now, 3.15% isn’t a bad rate all in all, but make very sure they didn’t sneak any other fees into the contract. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/42 "2016-11-22T17:57:26Z")
I bought my current car in 2014 and shopped around a lot for non-dealer financing, and the best rate I was offered was 3.3% from Chase. I think my FICO score was 690 at the time (I don’t have much of a credit history). ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/43 "2016-11-22T20:25:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > How did you decide that three percent was a good rate without having shopped around to see what you could get elsewhere? That’s my question also. Where did the OP come up with the arbitrary “credit score over 800 = 3.0%” ? My basic rule for new car financing is to see what rate banks or credit unions will give me. At the dealer I tell them I am handling the financing myself. After the final vehicle price has been settled with the dealer I offer them the opportunity to beat what my bank is giving me. If so I finance with them. If not I finance with my bank. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/44 "2016-11-22T20:25:55Z")
There is an [article in Edmunds](http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-an-auto-finance-manager-pg2.html) about a former finance guy. > [@The Former Finance Guy](#): > > The dealership had access to wholesale lending rates, called the “buy rate,” and loaned this money to the customer at a few percentage points higher, which we called the “sell rate.” This was a huge source of revenue for the dealership and it was about 50 percent of the commissions I earned. > > Bumping up the interest rate was easy to do because most of our customers didn’t know what rate they qualified for. If I sensed that they were uninformed, I could offer them, say, two points over and they would agree to it. If a customer had good credit but didn’t know it I could say, “We ran your credit report and, well, I guess you’ve had a few problems. But I’ll do my best to help you out.” So that would be your answer. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Laugh. I suspect the “buyer’s remorse” period is over, for one thing. _ **What** _ buyer’s remorse period? No such thing unless you buy something in your own home from a door-to-door salesman. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/45 "2016-11-22T20:27:22Z")
And this [Quote=The Former Finance Guy] After the loan was arranged, I tried to sell the customer extra products and services. This was a grueling process but it was where a lot of my commissions came from. The biggest item for me to sell was the extended warranty. Usually, I’d begin by asking, “How long do you folks plan on keeping your new car?” The answer I wanted was: “I’m going to keep it until the wheels fall off.” If I heard this I could easily sell them an extended warranty. [/quote] Consumer Reports recommends to never buy an extended warranty. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/46 "2016-11-22T20:28:56Z")
And lastly: > [@The Former Finance Guy](#): > > 1. Don’t buy the extended warranty. The bumper-to-bumper warranty will last for at least three years or 36,000 miles. The powertrain warranty will then cover all the things that make the car go down the road, often for up to 75,000 miles. > […] > 2. Don’t enter the F&I room unless you have independent financing or you have recently checked your credit report and investigated what interest rate your bank or credit union offers. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/47 "2016-11-22T21:10:10Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > This begs the question if indeed they lied to me, how is that not illegal? Please note that in many states, mine included, a car dealer can tell you anything - lie through their teeth - throughout the entire deal and it means absolutely nothing. [If it is not in writing, you probably have no recourse](http://www.consumer.ga.gov/consumer-topics/buying-a-new-or-used-vehicle): > [@](#): > > Price offers or verbal promises have little or no value if they are not put in writing. Be aware that a buyer’s order usually states that the dealership is not bound by a price quote even if it is written, unless it is signed by a manager rather than a salesman. Also, most contracts state that the dealership is not responsible for any verbal promises or representations not included in the contract itself. Make sure that all such promises, including items or options to be delivered later, are put into the contract before you sign it. If a used car dealer tells you that he car has never been in an accident but does not put that in the sales paperwork and later you find it to be a lie, you’re likely stuck with the car. And, oh yeah, there is no ‘cooling off’ period either. Once both parties sign the contract, you own the car - period. In general, car buying is one of the most financially dangerous things a consumer can do as they have very few legal protections on the back end. It makes being thorough on the front end absolutely critical. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/48 "2016-11-22T22:28:21Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > My basic rule for new car financing is to see what rate banks or credit unions will give me. At the dealer I tell them I am handling the financing myself. After the final vehicle price has been settled with the dealer I offer them the opportunity to beat what my bank is giving me. If so I finance with them. If not I finance with my bank. My experience has been identical to what **Hampshire** is describing. It is incredibly useful to have prearranged financing in hand when you’re at the dealership. However, you’re certainly not obligated to finance with your bank if the dealer can do better. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/49 "2016-11-22T23:42:28Z")
I’m kinda in agreement with the ‘you got yanked around’ consensus. Any time a dealer says they’re gonna get you a ‘great deal’ or a ‘friend discount’, they’re talking out their ass. I highly doubt he was even talking to anyone when he made that call for you. I just don’t understand why you didn’t go to your bank to get the loan. I have horrible credit but even I was able to get a loan through my credit union. I was able to go car shopping without the stress of haggling finance rates. And actually I even used a little trick I saw online that (as far as I know) worked out well for me. I wasn’t sure what car I wanted but I knew my budget. When I got on the lot, I saw my baby. Fell in love with it instantly but I just kinda asked a few questions, googled some and saw they were charging like 3k over the blue book. Which, for a 6k car is a hefty markup. So when I sat down to haggle, I didn’t mention already having secured financing. The advice I read said that if they think they can make up their ‘loss’ in financing you, they’ll be more willing to go down on the price. And yeah, I was able to get him to 6k out the door, taxes and all. Once we agreed to that and he asked for my SSN to run my credit, I let him know I was already financed, which didn’t make him too happy but whatever. But my point is, as been’s mentioned over and over, you research this stuff before buying the car lol Sounds like you’re happy with the purchase though and that’s what really matters in the end! ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/50 "2016-11-23T03:09:40Z")
One of my car buying experiences: We knew what car we wanted, spotted an ad for a “one car only” dealer discount of 2,000, decided to get it without additional haggling, calculated full deal including monthly payment, then headed to dealer. At dealer we told him we wanted the car in the “one car only” discount ad, did the normal dance, and after a while he walked back to the desk with paper work for the deal filled out. His paperwork was correct everywhere including VIN except for the monthly payment was about $40 too high. I told him I had pre-calculated the whole deal and his monthly payment was wrong. He argued with me for 10 minutes about how it’s the computer and must be correct, until we started to walk out and he went back to “double check” the computer. He came back with correct paperwork and explained that the computer had the wrong VIN in the “discount calculator” portion, and so it didn’t have the extra dealer discount. I guarantee you they use that “one car only discount” many times per month for anyone not paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/51 "2016-11-23T03:43:12Z")
1. When someone does a credit check on me, I can ask for a copy of the results. Perhaps this is only in MN, but if I ask, they have to comply. 2. I think you were scammed down to the somewhere around the correct interest rate. This makes the dealership and salesperson seem like they are great guys to a naive audience. 3. This is Mom lecturing here. Always, always check the loan rates with your credit union or bank before you are ready to lay your money down. They can sometimes do better than dealers and credit unions are often members of buyer groups so if you know what you want and are willing to pay, they can find the truck that fits your specifications through their online network. 4. I can’t comment on the extended warranty as I’ve never bought one. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/52 "2016-11-23T13:51:53Z")
> [@Originally Posted by The Former Finance Guy](#): > > Usually, I’d begin by asking, “How long do you folks plan on keeping your new car?” The answer I wanted was: “I’m going to keep it until the wheels fall off.” If I heard this I could easily sell them an extended warranty The correct answer is one year less than the length of the car’s initial warranty period. Always watch the dealership scenes from _Fargo_ before you go to a dealer so you have a fresh reminder of how they work. Those scenes are funny but they never stray from reality. When I bought a new car this year and the salesman started his spiel about some sort of undercoating I started reciting the “True Coat” scene. He gave up pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/aeb1de/32.png) [@Lee\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lee_Q)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/53 "2016-11-24T04:20:15Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > Was not really posting my experience to get a lecture, but thanks dad 😃 > > I would like to hear if anyone has experience with wildly varying credit scores that are always lower at the dealer… as well as the “call the bank dear family friend discount” trick. > > Thanks! I’ve heard and read for a long time that the Credit Karma score really is an estimate, so I don’t know if that was a lie, but it does seem odd that there wouldn’t be such a _big_ gap between the two legit scores you had in hand and what he was claiming. So maybe that was a lie. As for the ever popular “phone call to corporate/my finance dept head guy/whoever” in order to get you a “family and friends discount” or some other phrasing, that is very common. I’ve never experienced it when buying a car, as I’ve paid cash for used cars or obtained financing on my own and got a commitment to the price before ever stepping onto a car lot (learned that lesson years ago). Friends of mine have experienced it with car dealerships though. However, I did experience it when purchasing of all things a piano. Completely different product, but same exact scenario. “Tell you what, I really want your family to have this beautiful instrument. Let me call my finance dept head and see about getting you the associates discount.” He gets on the phone, says something like, “I have someone here who is exactly the customer we want. What can we do for them on price?” Complete with pause while supposedly the person on the other end was saying no way, forget it. He “fights” for the discount saying what a great family we are, everyone plays the instrument, it should be in a home where people appreciate it, etc. for a couple minutes. Really laid it on thick. Hangs up, says great news, finance guy is allowing him to knock $500 off the price. I could tell he expected me to jump for joy or kiss him in gratitude, but I said I’d sleep on it and left because the phone call thing seemed so fake to me. Wound up buying a piano from a different place for about the same price as the “discounted” price at the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/aeb1de/32.png) [@Lee\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lee_Q)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/54 "2016-11-24T04:23:46Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > The correct answer is one year less than the length of the car’s initial warranty period. > > Always watch the dealership scenes from _Fargo_ before you go to a dealer so you have a fresh reminder of how they work. Those scenes are funny but they never stray from reality. When I bought a new car this year and the salesman started his spiel about some sort of undercoating I started reciting the “True Coat” scene. He gave up pretty quickly. I love this. There’s also an awesome episode of This American Life where they spend time with car salesmen. I looked it up - it’s episode #513. A Jeep dealership on Long Island tries to meet their monthly sales goal of selling 129 cars, because if they do they’ll get a huge bonus of like $85,000 from the manufacturer. It’s a very revealing and fascinating episode. Highly recommended! ---
**Author:** ![toast\_pakora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@toast\_pakora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toast_pakora)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/55 "2016-11-25T12:40:55Z")
2nding the This American Life podcast which I actually listened to last night. It’s 60 minutes long but well worth it to learn the sales tactics. And, I guess, to buy at the end of the month, especially if it’s on Halloween. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/56 "2016-11-28T23:53:08Z")
Thanks for all the great feedback and the Fargo “Trucoat” scene. 😛 I have all but confirmed and resigned that I was likelygiven a seller rate that was perhaps as much as a quarter percent higher than I could have qualified for. I talked to my banker and the best rate they offer on used cars @ 72 is 2.99 so while likely scammed a bit at 3.15, I probably got off easy. In any event, lesson learned. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/57 "2016-11-29T00:19:50Z")
Typically, when you get a car loan at the dealer, who is actually providing the loan? Isn’t the “finance manager” at the dealer acting as a loan originator for a third party financing company? Coincidentally, during our Thanksgiving dinner, my niece started talking about some of the experiences she had when working for the finance department of a local car dealer. The finance manager had a huge house, a vacation house, and many other trappings of wealth. He also (and I’m sure this was not unrelated to his wealth) did such things as falsify pay stubs in order to get a buyer to qualify for a loan. I’m sure that loan was for a high interest rate, and I’m sure he was receiving a commission for every loan he originated. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/58 "2016-11-29T00:27:25Z")
> [@toast\_pakora](#): > > 2nding the This American Life podcast which I actually listened to last night. It’s 60 minutes long but well worth it to learn the sales tactics. And, I guess, to buy at the end of the month, especially if it’s on Halloween. I waited and got my Escape December 26th of its model year; knowing they’d be scored by Ford on how many of the previous model year they had on their lot on January 1st gave me that much more confidence. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/59 "2016-11-29T00:41:17Z")
A hint. Always go into buying a new car with the idea that you get the price then decide on financing. Also, always know what a good price is and watch for ad ons. My last two new car buying stories. Dad wanted to buy a car. Wanted me along to ‘talk to’ so that the sales guy would go away so he could think. Dad and sales guy agree on price. Dad says ‘This is the total, out the door price?’ Sales guy says ‘Yep’. Dad says ‘Ok’. Sales guy comes back and with the paper work and says ‘Here is the car price, the total is X’ with X being something like $750 above the agreed upon price. Dad points this out and sales guy says "Well, that is dealer fees and blah blah blah. It isn’t the car price’. Dad says ‘We agreed on X out the door, this is higher than X’. Sales guy says ‘But X is the car price, it doesn’t include the other fees’. Dad says ‘See ya’. We leave. The next day the sales guy called back and dropped the price to the agreed upon number. The ‘dealer fees’ were extra pure profit that the dealers try and scam people on. #2. Went to buy myself a car. Brought Dad along for same reason as #1. Picked a car and started talking price. Sales guy said 'How are you financing? I said ‘I don’t know, but lets get the price first’. He said ok. We talk about the price, I get him down to a good figure, maybe a hundred or so too high. I say, deal. Sales guy says ‘Ok, now for our financing.’. I say ‘I am writing a check.’ Sales guy says ‘This price is for dealer financing’. I say ‘I don’t need it’. Sales guy says ‘I can’t do that’. I say ‘Ok’ and start walking to the door. Sales guy lets me get to the door then starts chasing us. He stops us and says ‘Let me talk to the manager’. I say ok. 10 minutes later I got the car for my price without the financing. Slee ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642/60 "2016-11-29T00:45:09Z")
Wait! The dealer wanted to charge you more for a cash sale? It’s usually the other way around. Cash gets you a discount on big ticket items. Cash saves the dealer the finance costs and there’s zero risk of defaulting on a loan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strangest-car-dealer-experience-did-they-try-and-scam-me/772642.md?page=4)