# strawman **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 12, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strawman/254779 "2004-07-12T21:34:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strawman/254779/1 "2004-07-12T21:34:42Z")
I know this was explained to me once, but I can’t find it anywhere, nor can I remember what it means. What’s a strawman? I have a vague idea that it’s either refuting someone’s ideas just for the sake of doing it or annoying them, or it’s someone who takes a position simply to be contrary. This sounds like trolling to me, though. Am I totally off here? Please help. If this should be moved, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Jadis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@Jadis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jadis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strawman/254779/2 "2004-07-12T21:38:50Z")
Basically, it’s a debating “technique” wherein the person building the strawman either deliberately misstates someone’s position on an issue or latches on to one tiny aspect of the position and then tears it apart in an apparent attempt to disprove the argument. There’s a pretty good basic definition [here](http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lilyth/strawman.html), including an example using evolution as the subject. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strawman/254779/3 "2004-07-12T21:57:25Z")
Thanks. That clears it up a bit. It’s rather subtle, most of the time, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strawman/254779/4 "2004-07-12T23:12:51Z")
> [@FilmGeek](#): > > It’s rather subtle, most of the time, isn’t it? “Subtle”? Why would you use that word? Clearly, your intent in asking that question in exactly that way is to foment conflict and discord. For verily, to the cognoscenti among us, the employment of a straw man is not subtle at all, and the only possible reason you would imply otherwise is to cause the sweaty, feculent herd to become even more sweaty and more feculent in their nervousness about the high-falutin’ ways of the professional debaters and nitpickers. Well, fie on you! Your attempt to rouse the rabble will not succeed, now that your selection of vocabulary has been exposed for the nefarious agitprop that it is. Away with you! Ftagn! Ftagn! (That, if it isn’t painfully obvious, is a straw man, of sorts.) ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strawman/254779/5 "2004-07-13T00:37:02Z")
Actually, the strawman is probably the most noticable of these fallacies and, as you’ve noted, the one that gets latched onto the most. Generally, it is purposefully used by politicians who are going to get reported in the media as the media will likely hang on the exaggerated statement and, having gotten their soundbite, not look for the rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strawman/254779/6 "2004-07-16T02:28:46Z")
I don’t think that’s a particularly clear description of what a strawman is. The term is a metaphor, it comes from the training of soldiers. They were taught to fix their bayonets to their rifles and charge at straw dummies. Of course, when they went into battle, and had to face real enemy soldiers shooting at them as they charged, it was much more difficult. In terms of debate, a straw man is when you set up an artificial target, then tear it down.You write your opponents arguments for him, then say what’s wrong with the arguments you have provided. It essentially goes like this : " My opponent says yadda-yadda-yadda. Presumably he also thinks blah-blah-blah. Here is a detailed argument why blah-blah-blah is wrong, and when I’ve proved that, lets also assume that yadda-yadda-yadda is wrong too. " Or alternatively, the form is to present a list of what \*you \* say are your opponents likely arguments, without ever providing specific quotes from named sources. This type of argument is so much easier than actually addressing the points your opponent raises.