# Stretching Cold Muscles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337 "2004-11-23T19:36:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/1 "2004-11-23T19:36:30Z")
Dr. Tim Noakes in his book last copyrighted in 1991, _Lore of Running_,stated that “recent” evidence shows that stretching done when the muscles are warm is no better than when the muscles are warm; hence, he advocated stretching before any warm-up. Years and years ago runners would stretch before running. Then the general knowledge was to warm up first to warm the muscles. Now Dr. Noakes is going back to where we were before. Does anyone have any info or cites on this subject? Also, recent studies show that stretching does not help in preventing injuries. Again, does anyone have any info and/or cites? ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/2 "2004-11-23T21:34:00Z")
I haven’t got a cite for it, but my tae kwon do instructor (an MD/PhD student studying orthopedics, so he tends to follow this stuff) told me a couple of weeks ago about a study he’d read recently in one of the major medical journals that showed that most injuries are a result of lack of balance rather than lack of flexibility. The old idea was that you got hurt if something got pulled/stretched beyond its usual range of motion, so you could prevent injuries by increasing that range through stretching. This study, however, showed that most injuries actually happen within the person’s normal range of motion, but when it gets pulled at a bad angle, ie not the usual one that it wants to go in. (Imagine knees getting twisted or pushed sideways rather than the usual hinging forwards and backwards.) This happens when people lose their balance and try to compensate with muscles/ligaments that aren’t used to being used that way, and thus get injured. I think the authors of the study advocated balance training for injury prevention in athletes. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/3 "2004-11-23T22:02:03Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > when the muscles are warm is no better than when the muscles are warm; > Also, recent studies show that stretching does not help in preventing injuries. Again, does anyone have any info and/or cites? Whatever turns your crank! or whatever is in style at the moment. My dog alsway s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-s when she wakes up or goes out for a walk. Exercise entheusiasts at the health club go to the steam room and do all kinds of stretching first, and others just go straight to the exercise rooms or the racquet ball courts. ---
**Author:** ![LorieSmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@LorieSmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LorieSmurf)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/4 "2004-11-24T00:30:14Z")
I tried both ways when I began running. I found that I was able to run longer and had less soreness when I warmed up by walking for five minutes, stretched, and then ran. I found that when I simply stretched “cold”, I would get out of breath faster, got sore while running, and wanted to quit halfway. So from personal experience, it helped me exercise better. I don’t know about preventing injuries, I’ve luckily never gotten injured. But I’m not a hardcore runner or weight lifter, or what have you… ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/5 "2004-11-24T03:35:22Z")
Not sure if you are familiar with Pavel Tsatsouline, but he pretty much says the same thing: stretching isn’t necessary to warm up the muscles. Pavel himself seems to suggest that stretching can make you reliant on stretching, and thus set yourself up for injuries that wouldn’t normally occur if you didn’t stretch. (Beyond Stretching: Russian flexiablity breakthroughs) Here is a cite or two: [You are being redirected...](http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch9.html). In fact the author of that cite claims that stretching can hinder your performance: > [@](#): > > Moreover, for several seconds following any type of static stretch you cannot display your top agility or maximal speed because your muscles are less responsive to stimulation—your coordination is off. Static stretches reduce the force production of the stretched muscles. This was shown by several studies. Subjecting calf muscles to several 30-second stretches reduces their force afterwards (Rosenbaum and Hennig 1995). Three 15-second stretches of the hamstrings, quadriceps, and calf muscles reduced the peak vertical velocity of a vertical jump in the majority of subjects (Knudson et al. 2000). Maximal force production is impaired for several minutes after strenuous static stretching. Kokkonen et al. (1998) showed that maximal force in knee flexion declined on the average by 7.3% and in knee extension by 8.1% after static stretching even though 10–15 minutes passed between stretching and the strength test. Wilson (1994, quoted by Kokkonen et al. 1998) showed that maximal force production in a bench press is positively related to the stiffness of the prime movers (coracobrachialis, deltoid, pectoralis major, pectoralis minor, serratus anterior, triceps brachii), so stretching them could affect it adversely. According to a [USNEWS](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040621/health/21ligament.htm) article (take it at face value, since they don’t cite sources), Stretching might even cause more problems than it prevents. Now, these are the only cites I have offhand, but at one time I had much more. I don’t think this conclusively proves anything, and there are an equal number of cites that can be thrown around on both sides. There is a growing number of credible scientific journals that are publishing studies showing that stretching is not the magic preventer we are brainwashed into thinking, but it is gaining momentum rather slowly if at all. As anectdotal evidence, I have been lifting and running for years now, and have never once stretched before a workout. I have had no injuries, but as a caveat, it must be said that I do not train in Triathalons or train heavily into martial arts. I do stretch, but not before a workout, I stretch for what little martial arts I do participate in. YMMV obviously. Personally I doubt you are going to find evidence that will convince a person either way. I think if the average athlete or gym rat wants to stretch, more power to them. There are always risks, and stretching still seems to pose little to no real danger. Unless you are training all the time for the Olympics or something. And then you are paying for the best trainer anyhow, and certainly will not listen to a few cites on a message board. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/6 "2004-11-24T03:38:12Z")
Sorry, [here](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/040621/21ligament.htm) is the fixed USNEWS link. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/7 "2004-11-24T20:29:34Z")
Thanks, **Epimethus**. It appears then that one should not stretch before a run or race or whatever, _contra_ to the advise for lo these many years. I’ll limit my stretching for after the run from now on. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/8 "2004-11-24T20:51:19Z")
Just to confuse the matter further, traditional static stretching (30 second holds) has been shown to decrease strength in the stretched muscles, while PNF stretching may increase strength and may also be a lot more useful for static flexibility. So the type of stretching you do probably has an effect on the outcome you get. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stretching-cold-muscles/276337/9 "2004-11-24T21:03:06Z")
[Here](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9219322) is a contrary opinion, but altho it is by PubMed, it is not annotated.