# strictly about getting rid of the electoral college **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 26, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032 "2016-11-26T13:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/1 "2016-11-26T13:09:47Z")
Surveys, polls, what have you, seem remarkably consistent that a bit over 60% of Americans want the popular vote overall to determine the winner of the Presidential election. The 60+ percent has to, mathematically, include a significant number of Trump voters, so… I think it possible for a state by state change, a new law in each state that agrees that the electoral votes of the state will be given to the winner of the national popular vote, that change could actually happen. Would traditional red states join in? Maybe not, but states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina and many others where the Trump vote was well less than 60% might actually give it consideration and might put it to a referendum. Then, if enough swing states act to change their rules, whether or not the strongly red states agree will be moot. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/2 "2016-11-26T13:15:04Z")
Civis and Gallup “Gallup, which found that 63 percent of adults in 2013 wanted to get rid of the Electoral College, and that a majority of Americans have wanted to abolish it every time they asked the question, going back to 1967.” > **[Poll: most people who voted in 2016 want to abolish the Electoral College](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/24/13731770/electoral-college-poll?yptr=yahoo)** > > Even some Trump voters agree. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/3 "2016-11-26T13:24:16Z")
Even those states who happen to be strongly anti-Federalist and who believe they are validly entitled to have one senator for each 50% of their small population by the Constitution should be in favor of allowing other states to determine for themselves how their electoral votes are cast. Then, of course, a state could change their minds, it is up to them one year to the next whether to go with popular overall or popular within their state…an argument why a constitutional amendment would be preferable, but, face it, such an amendment is highly unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/4 "2016-11-26T13:27:07Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > I think it possible for a state by state change, a new law in each state that agrees that the electoral votes of the state will be given to the winner of the national popular vote, that change could actually happen. The [National Popular Vote Compact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) has been underway for a decade, and has not collected any major groundswell of support. Also, it does not “get rid” of the Electoral College. The only way to do that is via a Constitutional amendment. There have already been a number of Electoral College threads in the forum. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/5 "2016-11-26T13:49:38Z")
The only way forward that seems realistic is for each state to decide whether to cast their electoral votes for the national or the state popular vote winner. The electoral college remains, no amendment is required, the overall will of the people ratified. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/6 "2016-11-26T13:57:15Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The [National Popular Vote Compact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) has been underway for a decade, and has not collected any major groundswell of support. Also, it does not “get rid” of the Electoral College. The only way to do that is via a Constitutional amendment. > > There have already been a number of Electoral College threads in the forum. I’ll repost this since crucible seems to have missed it. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/7 "2016-11-26T14:20:57Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I’ll repost this since crucible seems to have missed it. actually, you don’t seem to understand that I am completely aware that eliminating the electoral college is not likely, but it is also unnecessary. The compact you refer to is also unnecessary. It should simply be up to each state to decide how to cast the votes. It doesn’t have to rely on any sort of country wide agreement. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/8 "2016-11-26T14:37:14Z")
Any movement towards a popular vote system now will be readily quashed once people in the states with an electoral advantage consider the idea in the actual political arena. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/9 "2016-11-26T15:06:26Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > actually, you don’t seem to understand that I am completely aware that eliminating the electoral college is not likely, but it is also unnecessary. The compact you refer to is also unnecessary. It should simply be up to each state to decide how to cast the votes. It doesn’t have to rely on any sort of country wide agreement. I’m not following your arguments. Each state does decide how to cast their electoral votes. And 48 of the states have decided that it’s a winner-take-all system: whoever gets the most votes in their state gets all of that state’s electoral votes. What exactly are you proposing when you say “up to each state to decide how to cast the votes”? Also, the statement that you are aware that eliminating the electoral college is not likely but unnecessary is inconsistent with the thread title: “strictly about getting rid of the electoral college”. What exactly is your thesis here? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/10 "2016-11-26T15:29:34Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > Civis and Gallup > > “Gallup, which found that 63 percent of adults in 2013 wanted to get rid of the Electoral College, and that a majority of Americans have wanted to abolish it every time they asked the question, going back to 1967.” > > [Poll: most people who voted in 2016 want to abolish the Electoral College | Vox](http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/24/13731770/electoral-college-poll?yptr=yahoo) That poll apparently breaks down the voters by Democrats, Republicans and independents. But that’s not the real issue, it seems to me. The breakdown I would like to see is by states. Is that 63% number constant in all 50 states? Or is there regional or state variation? For instance, do the voters in North Dakota and Rhode Island favour abolishing the electoral college by 63% margins? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/11 "2016-11-26T16:40:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That poll apparently breaks down the voters by Democrats, Republicans and independents. But that’s not the real issue, it seems to me. The breakdown I would like to see is by states. Is that 63% number constant in all 50 states? Or is there regional or state variation? For instance, do the voters in North Dakota and Rhode Island favour abolishing the electoral college by 63% margins? I can’t tell for sure, but I think the OP is assuming it’s true in all states, hence his bewilderment as to why all the states don’t act the way he things they should act if a majority wants to use the popular vote for president. But I’d be shocked if that number was representative in the smaller states. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/12 "2016-11-26T22:18:30Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The [National Popular Vote Compact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) has been underway for a decade, and has not collected any major groundswell of support. Also, it does not “get rid” of the Electoral College. The only way to do that is via a Constitutional amendment. > > There have already been a number of Electoral College threads in the forum. Such a compact would be unconstitutional without consent from Congress. Good luck getting that to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/13 "2016-11-26T22:38:21Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > It should simply be up to each state to decide how to cast the votes. It is up to each state today to decide on the system of how to select their electors. Most states decided to do it in a winner-takes-all way. A couple decided to divide them by the congressional district. What exactly is your objection? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/14 "2016-11-26T23:21:33Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > actually, you don’t seem to understand that I am completely aware that eliminating the electoral college is not likely, but it is also unnecessary. The compact you refer to is also unnecessary. It should simply be up to each state to decide how to cast the votes. It doesn’t have to rely on any sort of country wide agreement. If I don’t understand then it’s because you aren’t explaining it well. The Constitution already allows every state to decide how to cast their votes. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/15 "2016-11-26T23:55:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Such a compact would be unconstitutional without consent from Congress. Good luck getting that to pass. Says who? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/16 "2016-11-27T00:26:01Z")
Compact Clause: Article I, Section 10, Clause 3: > [@](#): > > No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay. According to Wiki: > [@](#): > > According to the Court, the Compact Clause requires congressional consent only if the agreement among the states is “directed to the formation of any combination tending to the increase of political power in the States, which may encroach upon or interfere with the just supremacy of the United States”.[68] The congressional consent issue is at the center of the current debate over the constitutionality of the not yet effective National Popular Vote Interstate Compact entered into by several states plus the District of Columbia.[69] Whether the compact clause would prevent this deal or not I leave to the scholars, but certainly on first reading, there is an issue. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/17 "2016-11-27T00:55:30Z")
I’ve been trying to understand the EC and it’s relevance today. Not much luck. Oddly, this [Snopes article](http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/13/who-won-the-popular-vote/) kind of helped. Thought I would drop it here. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-about-getting-rid-of-the-electoral-college/773032/18 "2016-11-27T13:02:31Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I’ve been trying to understand the EC and it’s relevance today. Not much luck. Oddly, this [Snopes article](http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/13/who-won-the-popular-vote/) kind of helped. Thought I would drop it here. My point was a simple one. The states have the right to decide how to have the electoral votes cast. Overall, in two decently devised and non-partisan polls, 62 or 63 percent of all Americans, country-wide, want to use the national popular vote as the method of determining the president. No, I don’t suspect that small states, enjoying exaggerated power by virtue of the constitution’s method of awarding electoral votes, will want to adopt this method. It doesn’t matter much because they were going to mostly go one way in any event. The main thing to understand is that in states where 48% of the people voted for one candidate and that candidate received all the electoral votes, 60% of the people may also poll that they want the national total to be presumptive of how their state will cast their electoral votes. Those folks should have a chance to change their state’s way of awarding electoral votes, don’t you agree? Put it to a vote in each state and let the chips fall as they may? Of course, conservatives don’t want this, it would ruin them. They never win the popular vote unless they also win the electoral vote. Democrats should be all in favor. But, as long as state legislatures are overwhelmingly controlled by Republicans, and, until the court’s recent rulings that redistricting cannot be performed with political party affiliation of the voters considered, it ain’t gonna happen very often.