# Strictly legal by the letter of the rules, but a jerk move nonetheless **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 24, 2023, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489 "2023-05-24T02:34:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/81 "2023-05-24T19:52:41Z")
Yeah, you are right, his position was even worse than his friend’s ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/82 "2023-05-24T20:12:25Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What I find jerky is that the runner isn’t even allowed to regain their feet from an awkward position without ever losing contact with the base and the fielder is standing there holding the ball on his back. The thing about this and the hidden ball trick is that it’s about winning via technicality. Technically, you’re supposed to be on the base at all times, but that isn’t important to the gameplay. Absolutely nothing about the quality of the gameplay or the competition would be harmed if these outs were disallowed by rule. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/83 "2023-05-24T20:18:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I see, yeah, that’s a real thing - the Buccaneers did it in 2012 against opponents, who got mad. (Giants and Cowboys). Although I actually didn’t have a problem with it, I consider it fair play, but I can see why other fans would be ticked. It’s one of the reasons why Sciano couldn’t last in the NFL. Like many other college coaches he came to a team full of professional men and thought he could treat them like college kids. It might be a good lesson for a kid to keep going until the last second but the professionals understand when the game is actually over. They have been risking life threatening injury the entire game. Having to do it on a meaningless play with time winding down is just going to breed resentment on your own team. I don’t know if any of his players publicly came out and said anything but you could tell they were not happy doing it. I think Sciano is a good college coach who never should have left. I know multiple people who played for him. I have a family member on his staff. He was an awful NFL coach because of this. He didn’t know how to treat professional athletes like adults. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/84 "2023-05-24T20:23:42Z")
Eddie Gaedel stood 3-foot-7 and his one at-bat in a MLB game tends to be treated as a mere publicity stunt by the St. Louis Browns. It was more than that really. The strike zone is defined as the volume above home plate and between the height of the batter’s knees and the height of the midpoint of his torso in his stance. If Eddie had gone into an extreme crouch the way he had been taught, his strike zone would have been only 1.5 inches high, and it would be hard for most pitchers to strike him out. He didn’t actually crouch that low in his one at-bat, but he was walked anyway. He was, of course, replaced by a pinch runner, who ended up not scoring. But the plan had tactical advantages and if it were tried again it might have won games. As far as I know there is nothing in the rules of baseball that strictly prevent a repeat attempt at this sort of thing. However, all player contracts now have to be approved by the commissioner’s office (a rule change inspired by Eddie’s case, I believe), which is unlikely to approve another player of similar stature. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/85 "2023-05-24T20:27:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You get one chance _ever_ to break a deal with me in a game, after which I just won’t make any deals with you ever again in any competitive game. Creating meta-rules like that just isn’t fun- it creates a hostile playing environment. If you don’t like backstabbing in games, don’t play games where it’s heavily featured. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/86 "2023-05-24T21:15:23Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Creating meta-rules like that just isn’t fun- it creates a hostile playing environment. If you don’t like backstabbing in games, don’t play games where it’s heavily featured. I disagree with the first point, but agree with the second. My old gaming groups gave up on Axis and Allies as well as Diplomacy because we were all unwilling to let the game go afterwards due to bad feeling. LHoD’s meta rules actually make those sorts of games _more_ realistic in a way - IRL certain people get reputations (good and bad) for being trustworthy or not, and it reflects in which people (or nations) will deal with them. Its not as if LHoD didn’t make it clear to the other party how they dealt with the scenarios. But again, back to the second point, yeah, best not to play those sorts of games if there are multiple conflicting Points of View. Or, pick a game that is all competitive / backstabbing all the time, with minimal cooperative elements. Which brings me to to another legal by the letter of the rules, but a jerk move: playing Illuminati, and all players agreeing to ‘Allow Cheating’ option. Sure, you’re explicitly playing by the rules in that variant, but it doesn’t make it less of a jerk move, even if everyone else is allowed to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/87 "2023-05-24T21:51:20Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Stealing a base when your team is up by a substantial amount of runs. This could probably also be included in the “Runnibg Up the Score” thread. One year Ricky Henderson wanted to break the record for most stolen bases in a season. He announced at the beginning of the season that that was intent so he was exempt from that unwritten rule. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/88 "2023-05-24T22:02:32Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > **He** announced Rickey’s preferred pronouns are Rickey and Rickey. I’m an M’s fan and loved his one year there. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/89 "2023-05-24T22:31:31Z")
Like I said, de facto legal since the first time there is (almost) never a punishment ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/90 "2023-05-24T22:49:52Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > Eddie Gaedel stood 3-foot-7 and his one at-bat in a MLB game tends to be treated as a mere publicity stunt by the St. Louis Browns. It was more than that really. The strike zone is defined as the volume above home plate and between the height of the batter’s knees and the height of the midpoint of his torso in his stance. If Eddie had gone into an extreme crouch the way he had been taught, his strike zone would have been only 1.5 inches high, and it would be hard for most pitchers to strike him out. He didn’t actually crouch that low in his one at-bat, but he was walked anyway. He was, of course, replaced by a pinch runner, who ended up not scoring. But the plan had tactical advantages and if it were tried again it might have won games. > > As far as I know there is nothing in the rules of baseball that strictly prevent a repeat attempt at this sort of thing. However, all player contracts now have to be approved by the commissioner’s office (a rule change inspired by Eddie’s case, I believe), which is unlikely to approve another player of similar stature. “Strictly legal by the letter of the rules, but a jerk move nonetheless - The Bill Veeck Story” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/91 "2023-05-24T22:53:57Z")
Playing to lose > **[Soccer Team Scores on Itself to Win Cup Match](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/football-follies/)** > > The unusual tale of a soccer team advancing in a cup match by deliberately scoring a goal against their own side. > Needing to beat Grenada by two clear goals to qualify for the finals in Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados had established a 2-0 lead midway through the second half and were seemingly well in control of the game. However, an own goal by a Bajan defender made the score 2-1 and brought a new ruling into play, which led to farce. Under the new rule, devised by the competition committee to ensure a result, a match decided by sudden death in extra time was deemed to be the equivalent of a 2-0 victory. With three minutes remaining, the score still 2-1 and Grenada about to qualify for the finals, Barbados realised that their only chance lay in taking the match to sudden death. They stopped attacking their opponents’ goal and turned on their own. In the 87th minute, two Barbadian defenders, Sealy and Stoute, exchanged passes before Sealy hammered the ball past his own goalkeeper for the equaliser.The Grenada players, momentarily stunned by the goal, realised too late what was happening and immediately started to attack their own goal as well to stop sudden death. Sealy, though, had anticipated the response and stood beside the Grenada goalkeeper as the Bajans defended their opponents’ goal. Grenada were unable to score at either end, the match ended 2-2 after 90 minutes and, after four minutes of extra time, Thorne scored the winner for Barbados amid scenes of celebration and laughter in the National Stadium in Bridgetown. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/92 "2023-05-24T23:00:10Z")
How do you feel about the wall ride that guy did recently? I understand it has since been banned but was legal at the time. It was pretty cool in a “WTF!” kind of way, but jerk move or no? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/93 "2023-05-24T23:02:49Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The thing about this and the hidden ball trick is that it’s about winning via technicality. Technically, you’re supposed to be on the base at all times, but that isn’t important to the gameplay. This isn’t really true. There are many plays that are dependant on the baserunners position between pitches. Unless time is called it’s a live ball, and runners can advance or be tagged out when caught stealing, picked off, hidden ball, or just inattentive. It also allows runners to advance from second to third after a steal when the defense is in the shift and no one is covering third. You ignore that rule at your own peril. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/94 "2023-05-24T23:09:57Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > unlikely to approve another player of similar stature. A real-life example of what The Goodies 5.11 “South Africa” described as [apart-height](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_(The_Goodies)#:~:text=The%20influx%20of%20tourist%20boats,apartheight%20(apart%2Dheight).)? ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/95 "2023-05-25T00:59:45Z")
I thought it was a great move. I used to do a lot of sim racing and did that a number of times. Never thought someone would actually try it in a real race. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/96 "2023-05-25T01:08:26Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > How do you feel about the wall ride that guy did recently? Huh, when I opened this thread, that’s what I was going to nominate, and it went 90 posts before anyone mentioned it. I’ll add another: Playing to checkmate in chess. You’re always allowed to, but a good chess player is expected to recognize when they have an untenable position and resign. ---
**Author:** ![pirviii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pirviii/32/3233_2.png) [@pirviii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pirviii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/97 "2023-05-25T04:13:33Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Sorry, that’s just a skillful play! That’s why I love the cheap purple and light blue properties, they can be used to soak up lots of houses. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/98 "2023-05-25T05:19:51Z")
Why would it be a jerk move? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/99 "2023-05-25T05:34:23Z")
Because it’s not in the spirit of the rules? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489/100 "2023-05-25T05:37:22Z")
Not helpful. Why shouldn’t you scrape along the edge of the outside? I don’t know anything about auto racing but it would seem like the friction would slow you down? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strictly-legal-by-the-letter-of-the-rules-but-a-jerk-move-nonetheless/984489.md?page=6)