# Strikeout in Baseball **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611 "2009-08-07T07:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/21 "2009-08-07T17:52:55Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I guess that’s a difference between MLB and AA; I would think that would be inexcusable in MLB play. I’ll go way out on a limb and suggest that the AA player’s manager wasn’t particularly accepting of any excuses offered by him for that maneuver. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/22 "2009-08-07T17:53:16Z")
I’d just like to say, now that we’re out of GQ, that the dropped third strike is the stupidest rule in sports, followed closely by the tuck rule in football. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/23 "2009-08-07T17:56:00Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I’d just like to say, now that we’re out of GQ, that the dropped third strike is the stupidest rule in sports, followed closely by the tuck rule in football. Why? You don’t think that the ball needs to be caught in order to be an out? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/24 "2009-08-07T18:00:25Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Similar question, if a batter is facing two strikes and sees a wild pitch coming, can he swing and then take off to first? [Taking first by swinging at a wild pitch has happened](http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU198606290.shtml) (bottom of the 7th, Davis at bat). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/25 "2009-08-07T18:08:29Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I’d just like to say, now that we’re out of GQ, that the dropped third strike is the stupidest rule in sports, followed closely by the tuck rule in football. A dropped third strike is [an error](http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN197004250.shtml) (top of the 7th, Wilson at bat). ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/26 "2009-08-07T18:25:49Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > A dropped third strike is [an error](http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN197004250.shtml) (top of the 7th, Wilson at bat). In the vast majority of cases, it’s either a wild pitch or a passed ball. In rare cases it will be an error if the batter reaches as a result of a fielding misplay not involving the pitch itself, such as (a) the catcher rolling the ball out to the mound by mistake–see 2005 ALDS; (b) a wild throw to first base; or (c) the first baseman dropping the ball ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/27 "2009-08-07T18:31:44Z")
By the way, if first is occupied with less than two outs, the batter is out anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/28 "2009-08-07T18:39:06Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > But my question is - what’s the purpose of this bizarre rule? Baseball wasn’t invented to be played like it is today, with professional athletes spotting 95-mph overhand pitches to equally skilled batters. In original form it felt more like slow-pitch softball, where the contest is between the batter _and the entire defense_ and the pitcher serves just to get the action started. Even when the batter struck out (which happened much less often), it was considered appropriate to involve the defense in some way. The catcher had to catch the ball, or retire the batter at first base. > [@CurtC](#): > > Is it only that they can’t change any rules because baseball’s always done it that way, and they always want to be able to compare stats across the decades? No, of course they could change the rule. Baseball has changed its rules many times. But why bother? It would make the game _less_ interesting. And, the dropped third strike preserves at least the principle that baseball is a team game, and (except in limited circumstances) even the best pitcher can’t retire batters all by himself. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/29 "2009-08-07T18:46:49Z")
Speaking of baseball rules, can a batter purposefully step into or stick his hand out to get hit by a pitch, and then go to first base? If there’s a rule against that, I would assume a lot of people could make a weak swinging motion to get their hand out in front of the pitch but not make it so obvious. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/30 "2009-08-07T18:52:22Z")
I don’t have the exact rule at hand but the batter is required to make an effort to avoid a pitch. Deliberately getting your hand in the way of a major league fastball is a REALLY bad idea. Doubly so if you’re swinging so as to get your hand in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/31 "2009-08-07T18:56:34Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Speaking of baseball rules, can a batter purposefully step into or stick his hand out to get hit by a pitch, and then go to first base? If there’s a rule against that, I would assume a lot of people could make a weak swinging motion to get their hand out in front of the pitch but not make it so obvious. You must attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch, although this is rarely called. Many players have increased their on-base percentage by sticking elbows out over the plate in hopes of being hit (Craig Biggio being one famous example). Also, if you swing (even a “weak swinging motion”) and are hit in the hand, it is a strike. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/32 "2009-08-07T19:18:14Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > By the way, if first is occupied with less than two outs, the batter is out anyway. Would that be an iteration of the infield fly rule? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/33 "2009-08-07T19:20:25Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Would that be an iteration of the infield fly rule? Same idea, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/34 "2009-08-07T19:52:45Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > You must attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch, although this is rarely called. The most famous example of the rule coming to play occurred when Don Drysdale of the Dodgers was en route to pitching a then-record 56 consecutive scoreless innings. As [this article](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCI/is_9_65/ai_n27002216/) puts it: > [@](#): > > Probably the one particular game that most baseball fans from that era remember about Drysdale’s streak came against Dick Dietz and the San Francisco Giants. With a two and two count on Dietz and the bases loaded, Drysdale delivered a pitch on which Dietz threw his left arm up. > > The pitch hit him and it appeared that a run had been forced in. But home plate unpire Harry Wendelstedt immediately signaled that the batter had made no attempt to get out of the way of the pitch. > > So the pitch was simply called ball three. With a full count, Dietz stepped back in the batter’s box and hit the next pitch that made it to the outfield, but not far enough for the runner on third to score on. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/35 "2009-08-07T20:03:21Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > By the way, if first is occupied with less than two outs, the batter is out anyway. Didn’t know that, but I see Munch and you explained it well. In one of my 12 year old son’s games this spring, that situation came up. Bases were loaded, two strikes, dropped third strike, and we were playing one of our less experienced catchers. The proper play was to pick up the ball and step on home plate. This catcher made a throw to first, but they didn’t get the out there due to a bad throw or catch, and the guy on third scored. Knowing now what you just said, I guess this had to be a two-out situation, assuming they follow MLB rules for this scenario. > [@Munch](#): > > Why? You don’t think that the ball needs to be caught in order to be an out? It seems like to me the default approach. Three strikes make an out, I should think, and as soon as the batter swings and the ball isn’t hit, that’s the third strike and he’s out. To implement the stealing-first rule, someone had to purposefully override the default and make up a rule about a dropped third strike. Seems like someone had to go out of their way to implement a really stupid rule. The infield fly rule, I understand the rationale. Not so much with stealing first. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/36 "2009-08-07T20:26:18Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > To implement the stealing-first rule, someone had to purposefully override the default and make up a rule about a dropped third strike. Seems like someone had to go out of their way to implement a really stupid rule. The requirement that the third strike be caught was part of the earliest rules that are recognizable as baseball–the [Cartwright rules of 1845](http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rule11.shtml). > [@](#): > > Three balls being struck at and missed and the last one caught, is a hand-out; if not caught is considered fair, and the striker bound to run. The “default” was that a ball must either be caught, or thrown beating the batter to first, for an out. The part about being out with first base occupied and less than two out was an amendment after the fact, tacked on in the 1880’s. Before that you could strike out into a double or triple play. If you were klutzy enough to strike out against the primitive pitching of earlier eras, you took your chances. As pitching became more sophisticated (and overhand), the K-DP and K-TP had to be banned. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/37 "2009-08-07T20:29:21Z")
One thing that I don’t think anyone has mentioned: The batter is not stealing first. He is reaching first on a wild pitch or passed ball. There is no Stolen Base awarded. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/38 "2009-08-08T16:32:17Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I guess that’s a difference between MLB and AA; I would think that would be inexcusable in MLB play. Mental errors of this type do happen in the big leagues, although they’re most common in the outfield. Which makes sense, because they might go a whole inning or more without any action. Probably the most common thing you see is an outfielder making a great catch with less than two outs and then just tossing it back in, which a runner tags up for a base (or a run!) he never should have gotten. (I’m sure you’ve seen the film of Willie Mays’ fantastic over the shoulder catch in the '54 series, but just as important is what happened next – Mays whipped around and shot the thing back to the infield, preventing Larry Doby from tagging up and scoring from second. That’s what you’re supposed to do, but not everybody is Willie Mays.) Once last year in a Nats game with a runner on first, the batter hit a sharp grounder to the shortstop who tossed it to 2B Felipe Lopez. Lopez touched the bag for the out and then fired the ball over to first for the double play. Except there had already been two outs. The mistake didn’t cost anything, but it was sort of the last straw for Lopez in D.C. because it was thought to illustrate how unseriously he took the game. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/39 "2009-08-08T19:37:44Z")
Isn’t there also a tradition that after the third out and the team is returning to the dugout, that someone flips a ball to one of the players? If so, who is the flipper, and who is the flippee? And if I didn’t dream this up, where did this tradition come from? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611/40 "2009-08-08T20:16:13Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Isn’t there also a tradition that after the third out and the team is returning to the dugout, that someone flips a ball to one of the players? If so, who is the flipper, and who is the flippee? And if I didn’t dream this up, where did this tradition come from? It is someone in the dug out giving a ball to the first basemen to use during warmups before the next inning. No tradition, just practicality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strikeout-in-baseball/505611.md?page=3)