# "Strong-arm robbery": This is a real criminal code charge? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 14, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098 "2018-06-14T16:42:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/1 "2018-06-14T16:42:27Z")
From [Suspected Walmart robber tries to carjack two different cars, both drivers pull out guns](Suspected Walmart robber tries to carjack two different cars, both drivers pull out guns) …According to Fox 30, Jacksonville police officers arrested 36-year-old Christopher Raymond Hill, charging him with strong-arm robbery, carjacking with firearm or deadly weapon, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and trespassing… I know each state has its own codes, so maybe it’s just a Florida thing. Never heard of it before, though. Where else is it real, or is it journalese? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/2 "2018-06-14T16:54:24Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I know each state has its own codes, so maybe it’s just a Florida thing. Never heard of it before, though. Where else is it real, or is it journalese? Browsing Google News for “strong-arm robbery” in quotes, I’m seeing it used in Georgia, Illinois, California, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Maryland, etc. ETA: IIRC you are in New York, so [here](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/04/26/dog-stolen-in-queens-2/) [are](https://www.silive.com/news/2018/02/nypd_man_made_false_report_in.html) some examples from there. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/3 "2018-06-14T16:55:57Z")
I’m having a hard time determining the difference between “armed robbery” and “strong-arm robbery”. Perhaps the latter encompasses any show of force without need of an actual weapon? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/4 "2018-06-14T16:56:29Z")
[From here:](https://www.reference.com/government-politics/strong-arm-robbery-cec2b798fae51d37) “taking or stealing something from a person using force or threats but without using a weapon.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/5 "2018-06-14T16:59:37Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/6 "2018-06-14T17:58:35Z")
Strong-arm robbery in Florida is a 2nd Degree Felony. While the actual text of the statute, [ss. 812.13(c),](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0812/Sections/0812.13.html) does not use the term “strong-arm”, the “Criminal Punishment Code; Offense severity ranking chart” found in [State Statute 921.0022](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0900-0999/0921/Sections/0921.0022.html) parenthetically describes the offense as such. It lists the offense as, “Robbery, no firearm or other weapon (strong-arm robbery).” Basically, if you try to steal something it is just a theft. The second that someone tries to stop you and you use any type of force (to include threat of force, or “putting [the victim] in fear”) to complete your thievery, it becomes a robbery. So shop-lifting becomes strong-arm robbery when the store clerk or security tries to stop the person at the door and the thief shoves them out of the way, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/7 "2018-06-14T19:11:31Z")
The term is used in the move Heat. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/8 "2018-06-14T19:31:22Z")
Basically if you look at the earlier state criminal codes they used dozens of separate offenses like this. In later years they consolidated the offenses into robbery 1st degree, robbery 2nd degree, robbery 3rd degree types of classifications. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/9 "2018-06-14T21:42:08Z")
In New Jersey we just have robbery. You have to look into the statute to get the grading. What we call strong arm robbery is 2nd degree robbery. If a weapon is used it is 1st degree robbery. One is 5-10 years, the other is 10-20. There are multiple crimes that are called by certain terms informally but it doesn’t appear in the statute. The word rape doesn’t appear in any of our statutes. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/10 "2018-06-15T11:58:39Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > The term is used in the move Heat. Odd, since the robberies in Heat were all armed robberies. Very heavily armed robberies. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/11 "2018-06-15T14:39:45Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Odd, since the robberies in Heat were all armed robberies. Very heavily armed robberies. Were they? (I assume a 30 year old movie doesn’t need spoiler alerts) I recall at one point they dropped everything and walked away and the only thing they could be charged with was trespassing and vandalism? Some were armed, some weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/12 "2018-06-15T14:50:52Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Strong-arm robbery in Florida is a 2nd Degree Felony. While the actual text of the statute, [ss. 812.13(c),](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0812/Sections/0812.13.html) does not use the term “strong-arm”, the “Criminal Punishment Code; Offense severity ranking chart” found in [State Statute 921.0022](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0900-0999/0921/Sections/0921.0022.html) parenthetically describes the offense as such. It lists the offense as, “Robbery, no firearm or other weapon (strong-arm robbery).” Nitpick: the Florida Statutes are properly cited as “§xxx.xx, Fla. Stat.,” “F.S. xxx.xx” or “Fla. Stat. §xxx.xx.” But otherwise, an excellent answer. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/13 "2018-06-15T17:33:15Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > …I recall at one point they dropped everything and walked away and the only thing they could be charged with was trespassing and vandalism?.. Reminds me of this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7fsxnzZF9w&list=RDC7fsxnzZF9w&start\_radio=1#t=20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7fsxnzZF9w&list=RDC7fsxnzZF9w&start_radio=1#t=20) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/14 "2018-06-15T19:45:30Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Basically if you look at the earlier state criminal codes they used dozens of separate offenses like this. In later years they consolidated the offenses into robbery 1st degree, robbery 2nd degree, robbery 3rd degree types of classifications. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/15 "2018-06-15T21:14:20Z")
What you might look at is the American Model Penal Code from the 1960s and the subsequent state criminal code revisions: > [@](#): > > Rather than a collection of offenses, where each offense is an independent creature, often the result of a political campaign prompted by a particular crime or event, the Model Penal Code adopts a system of offenses, in which offenses are designed to work together as acomplementary group. > > Offenses typically avoid both gaps and overlaps in coverage. By considering all offenses together, the legislature can better insure that the penalties associated with each offense properly reflect the relative seriousness of that offense in relation to other offenses. Part of this systematic approach to creating and defining offenses is to organize offenses conceptually-offenses against the person, offenses against property, etc.-and within each general group to organize offenses into related subcategories. [https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1130&context=faculty\_scholarship](https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1130&context=faculty_scholarship) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/16 "2018-06-15T22:50:42Z")
I’ve heard the term a number of times, most notably in reference to Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO. He was accused of having stolen from a convenience store by threatening the owner physically but without a weapon. The phrase “strong arm robbery” was tossed around a lot to describe the allegations. A brief googling leads me to believe that, like the states listed above, there’s no separate crime called “strong arm robbery” in Missouri, but it would just be charged as a Whatever-Degree robbery. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/17 "2018-06-18T13:09:35Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Were they? (I assume a 30 year old movie doesn’t need spoiler alerts) I recall at one point they dropped everything and walked away and the only thing they could be charged with was trespassing and vandalism? Some were armed, some weren’t. But that one wasn’t a robbery, it was a burglary, since no one was present at the precious metals depository. My point was that in the movie, they never performed a “strong-arm” robbery, in both robberies they were heavily armed. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strong-arm-robbery-this-is-a-real-criminal-code-charge/816098/18 "2018-06-18T21:10:47Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I’m having a hard time determining the difference between “armed robbery” and “strong-arm robbery”. Perhaps the latter encompasses any show of force without need of an actual weapon? An armed robbery, (aka aggravated robbery) is where the robber displays some sort of weapon in order to get the victim to comply. A strong armed robbery is where the robber just takes the victims property by force without displaying any weapons.