# Strongest Superheroes (plural) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 25, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640 "2010-05-25T00:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/41 "2010-05-25T19:19:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … Fine but by the definition you link Saint of Killers and Jesse Custer easily meet the criteria. They are possessed of “extraordinary or superhuman” powers. They may not meet the do-gooder criteria but I think that is too restrictive else you would have to say Magneto (as an example) is not a superhero (and often it is unclear such as with the Hulk in many cases). I suppose we could say “super anti-hero” but that seems unnecessary when talking about superheroes generically I think. > > Also, I think River Tam or Deanna Troi could fit in a comic as superheroes. Not very powerful ones but they are possessed of superhuman powers (compared to regular humans). Heck, Xavier is just an amped up Deanna Troi. Where do you draw the line? the bad guys are called [Supervillains](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervillain). > [@Wiki](#): > > … terms such as costumed crime fighters are sometimes used to refer to those such as Batman and Green Arrow without such powers who share other common superhero traits. … costumed crime fighters with superpowers works as a definition for me, especially if they’re colourful. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/42 "2010-05-25T19:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Batman, the characters from Watchmen (save Doctor Manhattan), Kickass - they’re all superheroes, though they lack powers. Nitpick: Ozymandias had superhuman reflexes, and his intelligence/technological prowess is arguably also superhuman. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/43 "2010-05-25T19:53:08Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Duplicate Boy, on the other hand, depending on who he’s encountered, has the potential, at least, to be top tier, although he can’t be STRONGER than anyone else, due to the workings of his power (unless he dupes the strongest person around, and then that person dies). Wiki is really thin on his page. How do his powers work? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/44 "2010-05-25T20:03:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Nitpick: Ozymandias had superhuman reflexes, and his intelligence/technological prowess is arguably also superhuman. No moreso than Batman; both are supposed to be at the peak of possible human achievement due to their dedication, singlemindedness etc. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/45 "2010-05-25T20:28:46Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Wiki is really thin on his page. How do his powers work? Legion names are pretty solidly descriptive, so exactly what it says on the tin - he duplicates powers. So, he can be as strong as the strongest superstrong person he’s met, but no stronger. Unless he runs into Nemesis Kid and can grab his ‘has whatever power he needs to win (so long as only one person is fighting him, and he’s not too busy gloating about winning his last fight, and underestimating the person coming at him this time)’ power. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/46 "2010-05-25T21:09:31Z")
Well, there’s [this](http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29279/609366-588184_fncr_cv7_large_super.jpg), and he’s pretty casual about it. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/47 "2010-05-25T21:45:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, there’s [this](http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29279/609366-588184_fncr_cv7_large_super.jpg), and he’s pretty casual about it. How do those planets not freeze in transit? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/48 "2010-05-25T22:00:14Z")
Heck, I’m curious what the chain is made of. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/49 "2010-05-25T22:59:49Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > How do those planets not freeze in transit? This along with the chains question is the transit time. Even at light speed we’re talking billions of years travel. Quite the feat to do it and be home in time for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/50 "2010-05-26T00:38:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > And isn’t Steel just a guy in a metal suit (i.e., with human strength)? Unless they’ve retconned things since I followed the character, Steel is a metahuman, but his powers involve teleportation (usually of his armor) not strength, so in that regard, he’s kinda like Iron Man. Back in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe days, they’d say Hulk was able to lift 90 tons, putting him behind guys like the Abomination who were Class-100 (100 tons or more), but when he gets mad, he gets stronger, with no upper limit. That’s the green Hulk, btw. Grey Hulk was IIRC more in the 70-80 ton class, right around where Thing was in in his more spikey days (which was higher than where classic rocky Thing lies). IIRC, Thor is flat out Class-100, plus he has a magic belt that doubles his strength or some such. He doesn’t use the belt much, though. For reference, Spider-Man is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy down there in the 10 tons or so level. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/51 "2010-05-26T01:41:47Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Superpowers are just one of the trappings of the superhero genre, and the least important For what it’s worth, I like Kurt Busiek’s definition – where superpowers are just one of the trappings, but none of the criteria are more important than any other. The idea is that you have to score three or higher out of five: 1. Powers 2. Costume 3. Codename 4. Heroic Mission 5. Superhero Milieu So, for example, Superman is the gold standard; he’s got powers (even in his first adventure he was a bulletproof strongman who could leap tall buildings in a single bound) and a costume (a cape-and-tights-with-underpants-on-the-outside ensemble complete with big chest emblem), and he’s got the whole “Clark (Superman) Kent” thing going on, and he fights crime and saves lives not as a paid bodyguard or whatever but just as a darned nice guy – and that’s four stars all by himself, regardless of the fifth. Batman: no powers, but he (a) too goes for a cape-and-tights-with-underpants-on-the-outside-plus-chest-emblem look, and he (b) calls himself “Batman” when he’s out (c) fighting crime and saving lives likewise – and that’s _ **three,** _ which is good enough regardless of the fifth. And if he teams up with Superman enough times, both of 'em start closing in on that fifth criterion – especially if they’re appearing every month in Justice League comics, alongside other three-star and four-star types like Wonder Woman and Green Lantern and the Flash and so on, and especially if they’re teaming up against superpowered costumed _ **villains,** _ and give Batman extra credit for solo adventures with Robin – eh, you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/52 "2010-05-26T07:32:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > For what it’s worth, I like Kurt Busiek’s definition – where superpowers are just one of the trappings, but none of the criteria are more important than any other. The idea is that you have to score three or higher out of five: > > 1. Powers > 2. Costume > 3. Codename > 4. Heroic Mission > 5. Superhero Milieu Hmm…you know, this works. So, revise my previous comment as ‘powers are neither necessary nor sufficient’. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/53 "2010-05-26T21:46:40Z")
Superhero Definition– > [@](#): > > Superhero–Any sentient entity with powers, skills, abilities, technologies or other attributes far beyond those of ordinary mortal men, who uses these attributes to fight injustice & defend Mankind. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/54 "2010-05-26T22:54:36Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Superhero Definition– Where does that definition come from? Doctor Who meets that definition, but he’s definitely not part of the superhero genre. So does Mr. Spock. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/55 "2010-05-26T23:44:13Z")
Doesn’t genius count as a superpower? I still think people would consider Lex Luthor a supervillain but Batman is not “super.” ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/56 "2010-05-26T23:54:29Z")
Batman is a superhero. You can make whatever definitions you want but if Batman doesn’t fall into it your definition is flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/57 "2010-05-27T09:11:13Z")
Lex Luthor and Batman are a supervillain and a superhero respectively. Neither of them has superpowers (unless Lex is wearing his battle armour). However, ‘genius’ _can_ be a superpower - the Brainiac legacy (and Coluans in general) are so far above baseline humans, and other species, that their intelligence is classed as a superpower. On the Marvel side, I believe Reed Richards is also so noted. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/58 "2010-05-27T10:53:33Z")
I also think it’s important to consider whether the person thinks of himself as a superhero. I’d count it as part of the milieu. Also, I’ve never liked the idea that Superman, who is the Renaisance man, should be better than superheroes who specialize in that one talent. He can be stronger than some, but surely the strongest should be stronger than him. Just like the Flash should be faster, and Aquaman should be a better swimmer. And the Hulk with his uncapped strength is definitely stronger than Superman, as Superman has faced villains stronger than himself. In a fight, it would surely be Hulk’s lack of intelligence that would be his downfall. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/59 "2010-05-27T11:00:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > In a fight, it would surely be Hulk’s lack of intelligence that would be his downfall. Unless you’re dealing with Hulk from World War Hulk! ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640/60 "2010-05-27T11:40:03Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Here’s how it went in the old Marvel Super Heroes Role Playing Game: all attributes, including strength, were given a rating in the form of both a number and an adjective. The scale goes like this: > > 0 None > 2 Feeble > 4 Poor > 6 Typical (most untrained humans fall here) > 10 Good > 20 Excellent (the limit of unenhanced human ability) > 30 Remarkable > 40 Incredible > 50 Amazing > 75 Monstrous > 100 Unearthly > > And there are some “shift” columns above 100 for bonuses, cosmic beings, and whatnot, but basically all the heroes fall somewhere on this scale. Spider-Man’s strength is Incredible, described as “able to lift up to 20 tons”; sounds about right, I seem to recall him lifting a railway car once, which was pretty much his limit. > > The next step up, Amazing, would have characters like The Vision, who can lift up to 50 tons. The Thing has Monstrous strength, and can lift up to 80 tons. Unearthly strength is defined merely as “more than 80 tons”, and **the only hero characters I’m aware of with Unearthly strength are the Hulk, Thor, and Wonder Man. The Juggernaut also has Unearthly strength.** > > But the champ has to be the Hulk, since as noted he gets stronger when he gets madder. During the Secret Wars, a mountain range was dropped on the Hulk and other heroes; the Hulk supported the weight of the mountain range until Reed Richards executed an escape plan. So, technically not a “lift”, but for about a minute, he was holding up _150 billion tons_. Hercules and the Silver Surfer also had Unearthly strength. In addition to The Thing, both Colossus and Namor were in the Monstrous (75) category. She-Hulk and Rogue were each either a 75 or a 50. Strong Guy and Iron Man were both Amazing (50) as well. Beast was down there with Spidey in Incredible (40). For the record, Aunt May was Feeble. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/strongest-superheroes-plural/540640.md?page=2)