# Struggling NFL Valiantly Holds Onto TV Viewers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994 "2007-01-29T19:19:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/21 "2007-01-30T07:16:08Z")
[QUOTE=vinniepaz] The reason they don’t allow this (I know, we tried it last year) is that it would take a ton of business away from local sports bars, etc. [/QUOTE] According to the article linked, the expressed reason is to keep TV raings up, and it also notes that the show is (supposed to be) for “private, home-based viewing by individuals” only. The NFL doesn’t give a rip about sports bars. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/22 "2007-01-30T11:52:39Z")
Does anyone have insight into the legal side of this situation? For example, what is the point in which it becomes illegal? I am thinking of bars, how many people does it take before showing a footbal game is not legal? What is the difference between this action and someone renting a TV and inviting 80 people over to their home for a Superbowl party? I guess I just don;t understand why they have to request permission to broadcast a broadcast. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/23 "2007-01-30T12:09:48Z")
I don’t understand how this lowers ratings. Neilson polls are the only way ratings can be calculated, right? If one of their participants is at the stadium, I doubt they would say they were not watching television. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/24 "2007-01-30T16:42:28Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] Yes, and the NFL are douches every. single. superbowl. What’s your point? [/QUOTE] My point is, this is hardly surprising, but every year someone asks and the NFL shoots it down. It’s their product and their right to do so. In fact I suspect ratings has little to do with it, more than image control. Can you imagine what could happen after you’ve officially sanctioned what would be in effect the hugest Superbowl party ever and it got out of control? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/25 "2007-01-30T19:59:11Z")
[QUOTE=Stuffy] Can you imagine what could happen after you’ve officially sanctioned what would be in effect the hugest Superbowl party ever and it got out of control? [/QUOTE] What could happen? NFL says gives ok. City of Chicago has big party at Soldier Field. Bears lose. Riots break out. Soldier Field is burned to the ground. People die. Do you really think anyone is going to blame the NFL for this? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/26 "2007-01-30T20:14:55Z")
I’ve been wondering…what if they did it somewhere else, like in the United Center, where the Bulls & Blackhawks play, would the NFL be able to stop them? If the Bears organization is not involved, can the city sponsor it, for example? The broadcast is on free network TV, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/27 "2007-01-30T20:24:36Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] What could happen? NFL says gives ok. City of Chicago has big party at Soldier Field. Bears lose. Riots break out. Soldier Field is burned to the ground. People die. Do you really think anyone is going to blame the NFL for this? [/QUOTE] Yes. What are you, new? Look at the shit they took for the Tit thing. Not to mention nearly every year some woman’s group tries to link the superbowl with an increase in domestic violence The NFL is kicking MLB and NBA asses for ratings why take a chance at tarnishing your image that way. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/28 "2007-01-30T20:47:31Z")
[QUOTE=Stuffy] Yes. What are you, new? Look at the shit they took for the Tit thing. [/QUOTE] Difference being the NFL runs the superbowl and controls what is shown during it’s airing. Unless the NFL organized and ran the event at soldier field, which isn’t the case since it would be the city organizing the event at the city owned stadium, there would be no blame towards them. That would be like blaming them for a riot that occured at a sports bar during the superbowl. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/29 "2007-01-30T21:04:22Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I’ve been wondering…what if they did it somewhere else, like in the United Center, where the Bulls & Blackhawks play, would the NFL be able to stop them? If the Bears organization is not involved, can the city sponsor it, for example? The broadcast is on free network TV, after all. [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t matter – the NFL has been spent the last few years pissing all over the Super Bowl parties that Vegas casinos used to throw. Relevant story from last year’s [Las Vegas Sun](http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/gaming/2005/jan/31/518212413.html): > [@](#): > > Halting a longstanding Las Vegas tradition of hosting Super Bowl parties, the league said it would enforce its longstanding broadcast rights to the game as well as federal copyright law entitling copyright holders to prevent public broadcasts on television screens wider than 55 inches. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/30 "2007-01-30T21:17:48Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Wouldn’t matter – the NFL has been spent the last few years pissing all over the Super Bowl parties that Vegas casinos used to throw. Relevant story from last year’s [Las Vegas Sun](http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/gaming/2005/jan/31/518212413.html): [/QUOTE] Thanks for the link, **Hal**. IMO, that is just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/31 "2007-01-30T22:10:51Z")
The NFL has a long history cracking down on people showing games in ways they don’t approve of. I recall a story from many years ago, when I lived in “Upstate” New York. The Buffalo Bills didn’t sell out games, so they would often be blacked out in Buffalo and Rochester, a city about 60 miles away at it’s closest point. A sports bar on the far side of Rochester (still in the 75 mile blackout radius) would be able to pick up the non-blacked out broadcast from Syracuse, and the NFL came down on them like a ton of bricks. For showing an openly broadcast signal that their antenna could pick up. Hm… on further review, this doesn’t seem to be an issue anymore. The NFL, thanks to its iron fisted legal department, now blacks out the Syracuse broadcast on [WTVH](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTVH) even though Syracuse is 150 miles away from Buffalo. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/32 "2007-01-30T22:51:32Z")
So if people set up satellite dishes in the parking lot and they get the game _that_ way, will the NFL Police, brandishing motorola headsets and clipboards, swoop down on them with full football helmet riot gear on? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/33 "2007-01-31T00:51:52Z")
The NFL doesn’t care as long as you don’t charge people to watch their free broadcast. Was the Soldier field event free? Seems I recall reading that there was a fee involved. It is a violation of copyright (for pretty much any tv broadcast) to charge people to watch something. I remember a story about a bootleg boxing night, where people charged a fee at public screenings of classic fights. That was a clearcut case of copyright violation. Sports bars do not charge patrons to watch sports events, thus there is no copyright issue. There is a ratings issue, though, as Nielson doesn’t count things like sports bars and college dorms. The debate over those ommissions has been going on for years. As for the riot issue, that’s probably the real reason. It’s the same rationale as why they put up netting on FG and XP tries: they don’t care about losing footballs, (the netting is more costly,) but the PR mess of fights in the stands is something they don’t want any part of. Also, the Superbowl brings in 90 million viewers, not 100. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/34 "2007-01-31T02:20:27Z")
Isn’t also true that they don’t let anyone use the word “Superbowl” in ads? That’s why radio ads say, “Get a new plasma for The Big Game.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/35 "2007-01-31T02:24:36Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] Isn’t also true that they don’t let anyone use the word “Superbowl” in ads? That’s why radio ads say, “Get a new plasma for The Big Game.” [/QUOTE] Not quite true, you can pay to be the official sponsor in your category of the Super Bowl. Otherwise it is as you mentioned, just advertise for the Big Game or some such. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/36 "2007-01-31T02:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] Isn’t also true that they don’t let anyone use the word “Superbowl” in ads? That’s why radio ads say, “Get a new plasma for The Big Game.” [/QUOTE] Yes, I think you have to be an official sponsor to use the word “Superbowl.” ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/37 "2007-02-02T14:56:17Z")
Several churches in Indianapolis cancelled plans for Super Bowl parties. The NFL says, 1. You can’t charge admission. 2. Thou shalt have no graven image larger than 55 inches. That was on the front page. [www.indystar.com](http://www.indystar.com) In the Go! section, under the heading “Super Bowl events,” they listed 33 bars with specials that day. 8 of them say “Super Bowl Party (or Bash.)” 5 boast of very large TVs. The ones that have a cover charge are saying the charge is for the buffet. They don’t seem to be scared of the NFL’s lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/38 "2007-02-03T21:35:23Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] The NFL doesn’t care as long as you don’t charge people to watch their free broadcast. [/QUOTE] Apparently, not so. From [theindychannel.com](http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/10916537/detail.html): > [@](#): > > The NFL said the law generally limits Super Bowl showings to one TV no bigger than 55 inches. > > This week, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league’s long-standing policy is to ban “mass out-of-home viewing” of the Super Bowl. An exception is made for sports bars and other businesses that show televised sports as a part of their everyday operations. > … > The statement said the NFL “has absolutely no objection to churches and others hosting Super Bowl viewing parties as long as they do not charge admission **and** show the game on a television of the type commonly used at home.” [sub]Bolding mine[/sub] I have the same question as **Lissa** back in post #22 - What is the legal basis for this? The NFL points to copyright laws - does the law specifically reference the 55" limit? Does it specifically exempt Sports Bars? Who is going to enforce this? Am I in technical violation of the law using my rear projection home theater with a 60" screen? Only if I invite others over? Or only if I take the projector outside my home? WTF? ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/39 "2007-02-03T21:40:51Z")
Yeah, I’m using front projector to display a 110" image. Wonder if I should move it closer to the wall to avoid breaking any copyrights. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994/40 "2007-02-03T21:47:32Z")
Answering a couple of my own questions, yes, the copyright laws specify the 55" limit, and have a carve out for “drinking establishments”. Unbelievable. [US Code, Title 17, 110. Limitations on exclusive rights: Exemption of certain performances and displays](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000110----000-.html) > [@](#): > > Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, the following are not infringements of copyright: > … > (5)(B) in the case of an establishment other than a food service or drinking establishment, > … > (II) if the performance or display is by audiovisual means, any visual portion of the performance or display is communicated by means of a total of not more than 4 audiovisual devices, of which not more than 1 audiovisual device is located in any 1 room, and no such audiovisual device has a diagonal screen size greater than 55 inches, and any audio portion of the performance or display is communicated by means of a total of not more than 6 loudspeakers, of which not more than 4 loudspeakers are located in any 1 room or adjoining outdoor space; [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/struggling-nfl-valiantly-holds-onto-tv-viewers/389994.md?page=3)