# STS-80 UFO Video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841 "2009-08-09T16:54:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/21 "2009-08-10T17:04:15Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Ok, that’s a good point in explaining civilian UFO reports, and I agree that more than likely that about 99.99999999999% are perfectly explainable, however, harking back to a previous post, what about Military reports of UFO’s where planes actually chase these objects around, or where military aircraft give chase and their entire electronics are shut off etc? See, this sort of tack just makes it seem like part of your personality wants to believe. That’s a lot of nines. You want to grant that many nines and still cling to something. Your post is a fine example of why it’s so unfrutiful to attempt to dissuade some folks of nutty theories. Just enjoy your private belief. There is no one here who will be able to give you explanations that are certain as you need to have them. I don’t even have that degree of certainty that I am sitting here typing this… Aren’t UFOs yesterdays fixation anyway? What about crop circles? Sure; a lot of them are faked, but others? And what about ghosts? As I read these sorts of posts, I become increasingly convinced that this sort of gullibility is hard-wired somehow. Perhaps related to whatever it is that causes mild paranoia. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/22 "2009-08-10T17:32:07Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > See, this sort of tack just makes it seem like part of your personality wants to believe. That’s a lot of nines. You want to grant that many nines and still cling to something. > > Your post is a fine example of why it’s so unfrutiful to attempt to dissuade some folks of nutty theories. > > Just enjoy your private belief. There is no one here who will be able to give you explanations that are certain as you need to have them. I don’t even have that degree of certainty that I am sitting here typing this… > > Aren’t UFOs yesterdays fixation anyway? What about crop circles? Sure; a lot of them are faked, but others? And what about ghosts? > > As I read these sorts of posts, I become increasingly convinced that this sort of gullibility is hard-wired somehow. Perhaps related to whatever it is that causes mild paranoia. It’s not that, it’s just that if proffessional military guys see weird lights, encounter weird things whilst in flight, and these accounts have been recorded, how can they be dumped into ‘nutty theories?’ The NASA UFO’s were debunked, and that’s excellent, other than that, I’m just wondering you know? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/23 "2009-08-10T17:50:20Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Ok, that’s a good point in explaining civilian UFO reports, and I agree that more than likely that about 99.99999999999% are perfectly explainable, however, harking back to a previous post, what about Military reports of UFO’s where planes actually chase these objects around, or where military aircraft give chase and their entire electronics are shut off etc? Who knows? Have you read these military reports or just what the internet said about them? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/24 "2009-08-10T18:00:40Z")
> [@Mojo\_Pin](#): > > Who knows? Have you read these military reports or just what the internet said about them? > **[Домен припаркован в Timeweb](https://vh206.timeweb.ru/parking/?ref=www.ufologie.net)** There’s one, and _I know_, the links name isn’t appealing, but it has a newspaper print to corroborate. > **[Домен припаркован в Timeweb](https://vh206.timeweb.ru/parking/?ref=www.ufologie.net)** Here’s another one from a declassified military document, talks about some saucers hanging about in Antarctica. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/25 "2009-08-10T18:01:45Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > It’s not that, it’s just that if proffessional military guys see weird lights, encounter weird things whilst in flight, and these accounts have been recorded, how can they be dumped into ‘nutty theories?’ > > The NASA UFO’s were debunked, and that’s excellent, other than that, I’m just wondering you know? But it is just that. You are OK if the first ten trillion (your numbers–not mine, assuming I did the calculation correctly) stories have reasonable debunking…you want to know: What about the ten trillion and first? And it’s that determination to find something to cling to that belies your pretense of simply examining the available data. Trust me on this: there is a part of your brain determined to find some fire in the smoke of mundane explanations, and no-one, anywhere, is going to be able to erase your doubt about ordinary explanations being sufficient. No-one. You will always feel there might be something to it all, and no external analysis will suffice to quench that doubt. Just go enjoy your world as it is, with the pleasant thought that there is probably something to the UFO phenomena which is deeper and more remarkable than lousy camera angles or astronaut pee. You will not be able to eradicate it by simply examining the data or the explanations. You are wired to believe, and to believe that others are missing the Real Explanation. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/26 "2009-08-10T18:18:29Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Ok puttin that to one side, the hoaxes and the people who actively encourage overreaction to make money off them, what about Military reports of UFO sightings above US military installations, an interesting one was featured on UFO Hunters I think, about a huge NATO naval operation in the North Sea in the 50’s called **Operation Mainbrace** , where allegedly UFO’s buzzed the fleet in numerous circumstances and aircraft chased a UFO. 1. Why shouldn’t a military man make money off UFO reports? Perhaps his cousin has a book coming out… 2. Note how only people who want to believe in UFOs (or make money out of them) bother repeating these sightings. The US military isn’t interested. 3. As has been said, even if something is hard to explain, it doesn’t mean that aliens have travelled interstellar distances just to tease us. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/27 "2009-08-10T18:20:09Z")
It is swamp gas. It is always swamp gas. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/28 "2009-08-10T18:36:16Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > But it is just that. > > You are OK if the first ten trillion (your numbers–not mine, assuming I did the calculation correctly) stories have reasonable debunking…you want to know: What about the ten trillion and first? And it’s that determination to find something to cling to that belies your pretense of simply examining the available data. > > Trust me on this: there is a part of your brain determined to find some fire in the smoke of mundane explanations, and no-one, anywhere, is going to be able to erase your doubt about ordinary explanations being sufficient. No-one. You will always feel there might be something to it all, and no external analysis will suffice to quench that doubt. > > Just go enjoy your world as it is, with the pleasant thought that there is probably something to the UFO phenomena which is deeper and more remarkable than lousy camera angles or astronaut pee. You will not be able to eradicate it by simply examining the data or the explanations. You are wired to believe, and to believe that others are missing the Real Explanation. I don’t like to think I’m nuts, and truth be told, I dislike stupid ass UFO ‘experts’ and conspiracy theorists. To me it borders on David Icke territory. I love things being debunked, hence why I made this thread, I hate being naive and taken for a ride by people who just wanna sensationalise as you say ‘astronaut pee’ I asked about the military for example, because they’re _usually_ more trustworthy in reports than the general public, there’s records kept, and investigations made which are backed up by scientific study, usually. Hence the reason why I asked. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/29 "2009-08-10T20:36:35Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > It’s not that, it’s just that if proffessional military guys see weird lights, encounter weird things whilst in flight, and these accounts have been recorded, how can they be dumped into ‘nutty theories?’ They aren’t. “Seeing weird lights” is not a theory at all. It’s an observation. What would be nutty is ascribing those lights to space aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/30 "2009-08-10T21:14:58Z")
Maybe it’s growing up in an age where anything associated with strange lights is immediately equated with Aliens, I don’t know, but you have to know I appreciate debunkers, you have to understand that it’s hard to shake off the association when I’ve grown up with it in popular culture. Meh, maybe I’m just naive, but that’s the way I see it. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/31 "2009-08-10T21:46:12Z")
You think “strange lights” are all that is reported by pilots? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/32 "2009-08-10T21:51:05Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > , is it accurate of me to say that, in light of this video, space junk doesn’t act like this and there is\*\* no rational explanation of what’s going on here other than an intelligent craft/s going about their business\*\* in full view of the Space Shuttles cameras, or am I wrong? C’mon now, look at your own wording here. You really think “intelligent crafts going about their business” is a rational explanation? How does one even know what that would look like? What are you comparing this observation to? Movies? TV? It’s just how you pictured alien craft would go about their business? You have to admit it’s quite silly. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/33 "2009-08-10T21:56:49Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > C’mon now, look at your own wording here. You really think “intelligent crafts going about their business” is a rational explanation? > How does one even know what that would look like? What are you comparing this observation to? Movies? TV? It’s just how you pictured alien craft would go about their business? > You have to admit it’s quite silly. Well, erm, since I needed a frame of reference to convey what I was trying to explain, and since in my initial impression the lights were acting in a way I didn’t know could be natural, it was an assumption on my part to assume they were intelligently controlled. > [@](#): > > You think “strange lights” are all that is reported by pilots? You wanna elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/34 "2009-08-10T22:05:34Z")
At the top of my head, JAL 1628 specifically reported “craft” (three, as I recall). The pilot was even nice enough to draw diagrams of them for reporters. There’s another case from the middle-east that I can’t recall well enough but definately included “crafts” not just lights. I’ll throw in some links in a moment for those who can’t Google, assuming my webs will be running at full speed at some point; I’m still having trouble even loading the “post reply” and “quote” buttons here. Oh, the movie I referred to earlier was called “Black Box UFO Secrets”, I’m pretty sure. Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![dinoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/35 "2009-08-10T22:32:39Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I asked about the military for example, because they’re _usually_ more trustworthy in reports than the general public, there’s records kept, and investigations made which are backed up by scientific study, usually. First off, I think you give military/pilots more authority here than they deserve. Military people hold no superhuman ability to perceive things beyond that of civilians and their senses can be just as easily fooled. That notwithstanding, most military “sightings” are simply that, observations (as noted previously) and not conclusions. The most intense military investigation to date, [Project Blue Book](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book), concluded: > [@](#): > > 1. No UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security. > 2. There has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as “unidentified” represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present day scientific knowledge. > 3. **There has been no evidence indicating the sightings categorized as “unidentified” are extraterrestrial vehicles**. Bold mine ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/36 "2009-08-10T22:34:21Z")
> [@glee](#): > > - no aliens signals have been received (despite careful scientific efforts) Not necessarily true. If you read Pale Blue Dot by Carl Sagan, I believe it’s the 2nd to last chapter in which he makes a pretty compelling argument that a couple of the signals we’ve received could very possibly be of intelligent origin. They pass every test for intelligent origin except repeatability, and then he goes on to give a very good explanation of why they might not have repeated. And it’s a scientific explanation, not some behavioral inference. Now, that being said, the following statement is still true: > [@glee](#): > > Therefore the most likely \*\*rational explanation \*\*for any ‘UFO claim’ is that it is a hoax, designed to make money. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/37 "2009-08-10T22:39:50Z")
> [@dinoboy](#): > > First off, I think you give military/pilots more authority here than they deserve. Military people hold no superhuman ability to perceive things beyond that of civilians and their senses can be just as easily fooled. That notwithstanding, most military “sightings” are simply that, observations (as noted previously) and not conclusions. > > The most intense military investigation to date, [Project Blue Book](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book), concluded: > > Bold mine > [@](#): > > Hynek was an associate member of the Robertson Panel, which recommended that UFOs needed debunking. A few years later, however, Hynek’s opinions about UFOs changed, and he thought they represented an unsolved mystery deserving scientific scrutiny. As the only scientist involved with US Government UFO studies from the beginning to the end, he could offer a unique perspective on Projects Sign, Grudge, and Blue Book. > > After what he described as a promising beginning with a potential for scientific research, Hynek grew increasingly disenchanted with Blue Book during his tenure with the project, leveling accusations of indifference, incompetence, and of shoddy research on the part of Air Force personnel. Hynek notes that during its existence, critics dubbed Blue Book “The Society for the Explanation of the Uninvestigated.” Most intense, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![dinoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/38 "2009-08-11T00:22:45Z")
> [@UselessGit](#): > > Most intense, indeed. “Intense” in the sense of effort (and money). I was merely providing the Air Force’s official take from their “best” efforts (As they seem to be viewed by the OP as an authority on such matters - “records kept, and investigations made” kind of stuff). I didn’t say that I held the Project Blue Book in high regard, I don’t (for reasons you bring up; it actually gets worse through the late 50s). ---
**Author:** ![Synaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Synaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Synaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/39 "2009-08-11T17:21:41Z")
This has been my favorite since I’ve read it: [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440802,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440802,00.html) 50 years ago a US pilot was order to fire all of his 24 rockets at a target hovering over Norfolk. As the pilot approached and got the target on rader, it disappeared. Pilots seeing weird stuff can be explained away. This guy was ordered to fire an entire salvo of missles at it! ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/40 "2009-08-11T17:34:52Z")
> [@Synaptics](#): > > This has been my favorite since I’ve read it: > > [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440802,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440802,00.html) > > 50 years ago a US pilot was order to fire all of his 24 rockets at a target hovering over Norfolk. As the pilot approached and got the target on rader, it disappeared. > > Pilots seeing weird stuff can be explained away. This guy was ordered to fire an entire salvo of missles at it! Arggh! This kind of stuff drives me nuts! Reporting that you are seeing something which you can’t identify is one thing, but when you begin to arbitrarily assign attributes to it such as “It was some kind of alien snooping over England” or “This thing had a different propulsion system” you are obviously cuckoo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841.md?page=3)