# STS-80 UFO Video **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841 "2009-08-09T16:54:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Synaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Synaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Synaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/41 "2009-08-11T17:43:12Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Arggh! This kind of stuff drives me nuts! Reporting that you are seeing something which you can’t identify is one thing, but when you begin to arbitrarily assign attributes to it such as “It was some kind of alien snooping over England” or “This thing had a different propulsion system” you are obviously cuckoo. Granted, those are some pretty far out conjectures to make. I took them as him spouting off hypotheticals. But the fact remains that this guy was order to fire 24!! missles at a target. I’m very sure that orders like that aren’t given lightly or without double checking. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/42 "2009-08-11T19:41:55Z")
> [@Synaptics](#): > > Granted, those are some pretty far out conjectures to make. I took them as him spouting off hypotheticals. > > But the fact remains that this guy was order to fire 24!! missles at a target. I’m very sure that orders like that aren’t given lightly or without double checking. Not that impressive. They were small unguided rockets with terrible accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/43 "2009-08-11T21:01:33Z")
> [@Synaptics](#): > > This has been my favorite since I’ve read it: > > [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440802,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440802,00.html) > > 50 years ago a US pilot was order to fire all of his 24 rockets at a target hovering over Norfolk. As the pilot approached and got the target on rader, it disappeared. > > Pilots seeing weird stuff can be explained away. This guy was ordered to fire an entire salvo of missles at it! Lets see… At night. 50 years ago, only coming to light now because a “sinister official” warned the storyteller off a half century ago and he just realized, at age 77, it’s OK to come forward with it for the first time. An “alien intruder” that was “the size of an aircraft carrier.” (At least it was smaller than the mile-and-a-half-wide blob of astronaut pee in the OP link) The RAF orders a US pilot to (singlehandedly?) scramble to shoot down an alien bogey…over England. Which then disappears at 10,000 mph. You have to be hardwired to believe in order to accept that this sort of silliness is convincing. Batboy Lives! [http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://geotypografika.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/bat\_boy\_lives.jpg&imgrefurl=http://geotypografika.com/2008/10/19/mpls-booksmart/&usg=\_\_R88Jyn9qcADccgwipmTNmlctPSM=&h=529&w=400&sz=258&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=24LSQS4HORMf1M:&tbnh=132&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbatboy%2Blives%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://geotypografika.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/bat_boy_lives.jpg&imgrefurl=http://geotypografika.com/2008/10/19/mpls-booksmart/&usg=__R88Jyn9qcADccgwipmTNmlctPSM=&h=529&w=400&sz=258&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=24LSQS4HORMf1M:&tbnh=132&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbatboy%2Blives%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1) ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/44 "2009-08-11T22:26:15Z")
It is very difficult to describe something objectively, because there is a strong desire to interpret what is seen in order to make sense of it when it is out of the ordinary. In an emotional state of anxiety and confusion that often accompanies sightings of something unknown, it is very easy to draw comparisons to something familiar. But that purely objective description is far more valuable and true to reality than saying “It looks like\_\_\_,” “It acts like\_\_\_\_\_,” “It acts as if it’s\_\_\_\_\_” and “I see what looks like\_\_\_\_.” Those are all very subjective personal interpretations that are given full credence and regarded as gospel truth, simply because the person saying it was an eyewitness or is held in awe for being an eyewitness. There is no more truth to their statements than if I say there was a unicorn in my back yard. I was there and I saw it. I know what I saw. How dare you question what I saw when you weren’t even there. There is also the logical fallacy that one exception trumps all other consistent observations. This might be true for the first three or four times a particular phenomenon is observed, but after hundreds or thousands of observations, it isn’t true. It would require willful ignorance of reality, magical thinking, delusional thinking or naivete to think that the exception proves the rule. If I look up and don’t see a UFO, that doesn’t prove that UFO sightings are or not real or evidence of extraterrestrials. I didn’t see anything. The level of proof shifts to comparing the UFO to a known standard. So far we have no universal, objective standard of what a UFO looks like, outside of subjective descriptions from movies or books. This is where purely objective observations without any interpretation whatsoever is most valuable. Most people are not trained to observe things in this way, but most of us will grant truth to an emotion-laden subjective interpretation. Objective description or subjective interpretation: which do you think is closer to the truth? Vlad/Igor ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/45 "2009-08-11T23:01:24Z")
(looks at vid) …argh, not every “s” requires an apostrophe before it! Can anyone explain why the video is so…wavy? It’s like it’s shooting through a hear haze or something. I assume by that point we’re just dealing with the shuttle in orbit, not during boost, right? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f08c70/32.png) [@Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Brother_Walker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/46 "2009-08-12T06:19:47Z")
I didn’t see any link to the official report, but here’s my question: If this pilot fired all 24 of his missles, what did he hit? ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/47 "2009-08-12T13:42:06Z")
> [@Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](#): > > I didn’t see any link to the official report, but here’s my question: > > If this pilot fired all 24 of his missles, what did he hit? He was ordered to fire but didn’t. Because there was nothing there. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/48 "2009-08-12T18:25:17Z")
> [@Synaptics](#): > > This has been my favorite since I’ve read it: > > [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440802,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440802,00.html) > > 50 years ago a US pilot was order to fire all of his 24 rockets at a target hovering over Norfolk. As the pilot approached and got the target on rader, it disappeared. > > Pilots seeing weird stuff can be explained away. This guy was ordered to fire an entire salvo of missles at it! 1. As others have said, **he waited 50 years to mention this story**. No urgency then. :rolleyes: 2. The RAF don’t take kindly to foreign pilots (even allied ones) firing salvoes of missiles at unidentified targets. Consider the damage caused by a craft the size of an aircraft carrier crashing. :smack: 3. if the authorities truly believed this was an alien craft that had presumably travelled interstellar distances and was powered by incredibly advanced technology, why the f\*ck would they order it to be shot down? 😕 This story is a load of rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/49 "2009-08-12T19:50:09Z")
> [@dinoboy](#): > > First off, I think you give military/pilots more authority here than they deserve. Military people hold no superhuman ability to perceive things beyond that of civilians and their senses can be just as easily fooled. That notwithstanding, most military “sightings” are simply that, observations (as noted previously) and not conclusions. > > The most intense military investigation to date, [Project Blue Book](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book), concluded: > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. No UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security. > > 2. There has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as “unidentified” represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present day scientific knowledge. > > 3. **There has been no evidence indicating the sightings categorized as “unidentified” are extraterrestrial vehicles.** > > Bold mine > [@UselessGit](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Hynek was an associate member of the Robertson Panel, which recommended that UFOs needed debunking. A few years later, however, Hynek’s opinions about UFOs changed, and he thought they represented an unsolved mystery deserving scientific scrutiny. As the only scientist involved with US Government UFO studies from the beginning to the end, he could offer a unique perspective on Projects Sign, Grudge, and Blue Book. > > > > After what he described as a promising beginning with a potential for scientific research, Hynek grew increasingly disenchanted with Blue Book during his tenure with the project, leveling accusations of indifference, incompetence, and of shoddy research on the part of Air Force personnel. Hynek notes that during its existence, critics dubbed Blue Book “The Society for the Explanation of the Uninvestigated.” > > Most intense, indeed. Blue Book was specifically implemented to debunk UFOs, then disbanded when someone in charge realized that they couldn’t explain everything. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/50 "2009-08-12T19:58:43Z")
> [@glee](#): > > 1. if the authorities truly believed this was an alien craft that had presumably travelled interstellar distances and was powered by incredibly advanced technology, why the f\*ck would they order it to be shot down? 😕 You obviously don’t know how Americans operate. Shoot first, ask questions later, or in some cases, figure out what you actually shot at after. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/51 "2009-08-12T20:02:28Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Blue Book was specifically implemented to debunk UFOs, then disbanded when someone in charge realized that they couldn’t explain everything. That’s the way I heard it too. Whatever the truth of this phenomenon, it is worthy of study and not ridicule, if only for the psychological aspects of it, but there is hardly any serious coverage of the topic in the social sciences, as far as I am aware. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/52 "2009-08-13T06:50:24Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > See, this sort of tack just makes it seem like part of your personality wants to believe. That’s a lot of nines. You want to grant that many nines and still cling to something. > > Your post is a fine example of why it’s so unfrutiful to attempt to dissuade some folks of nutty theories. > > Just enjoy your private belief. There is no one here who will be able to give you explanations that are certain as you need to have them. I don’t even have that degree of certainty that I am sitting here typing this… > > Aren’t UFOs yesterdays fixation anyway? What about crop circles? Sure; a lot of them are faked, but others? And what about ghosts? > > As I read these sorts of posts, I become increasingly convinced that this sort of gullibility is hard-wired somehow. Perhaps related to whatever it is that causes mild paranoia. You didn’t answer his question: Ryan Liam - “what about Military reports of UFO’s where planes actually chase these objects around, or where military aircraft give chase and their entire electronics are shut off etc?” ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/53 "2009-08-13T08:30:03Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > Not that impressive. They were small unguided rockets with terrible accuracy. So if you were in an airplane and a salvo of 24 rockets was fired at you, you would shrug your shoulders and say, “Meh, not that impressive, they’re just small unguided rockets with terrible accruacy.” ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/54 "2009-08-13T13:32:41Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > You didn’t answer his question: Ryan Liam - “what about Military reports of UFO’s where planes actually chase these objects around, or where military aircraft give chase and their entire electronics are shut off etc?” I did answer it, in Post #21. Here’s his question, in full: **(by Ryan Liam)** _"Ok, that’s a good point in explaining civilian UFO reports, and I agree that more than likely that about 99.99999999999% are perfectly explainable, however, harking back to a previous post, what about Military reports of UFO’s where planes actually chase these objects around, or where military aircraft give chase and their entire electronics are shut off etc? "_ My answer is that no one will be able to satisfy his, “Well, I see your explanation makes sense for that, but what about this” approach. It’s utterly useless to address a given (or even all) Military Report because what is going on is an underlying determination to Believe. I did address the Military Report cited a few posts ago. I will not be returning to address them all one by one. Batboy Lives, as I mentioned above. [http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper609/stills/268105s3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hlrecord.org/news/2005/11/17/Opinion/bat-Boy.Lives.Reviewed.Freaks.Sideshows-1109913.shtml&h=400&w=322&sz=36&tbnid=1IkQw7-L8QWLxM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbat%2Bboy%2Blives&hl=en&usg=\_\_ii8u4iHKzk0fjVgskcxl3-hE5Y0=&ei=0RWESuaBO4H-NbvFzc0E&sa=X&oi=image\_result&resnum=6&ct=image](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper609/stills/268105s3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hlrecord.org/news/2005/11/17/Opinion/bat-Boy.Lives.Reviewed.Freaks.Sideshows-1109913.shtml&h=400&w=322&sz=36&tbnid=1IkQw7-L8QWLxM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbat%2Bboy%2Blives&hl=en&usg=__ii8u4iHKzk0fjVgskcxl3-hE5Y0=&ei=0RWESuaBO4H-NbvFzc0E&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=6&ct=image) ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/55 "2009-08-13T13:58:34Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > So if you were in an airplane and a salvo of 24 rockets was fired at you, you would shrug your shoulders and say, “Meh, not that impressive, they’re just small unguided rockets with terrible accruacy.” I would if none of them hit me. If I were flying an interstellar aircraft carrier I doubt I’d be bothered if all of them hit, having about the explosive power of a hand grenade. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/56 "2009-08-13T15:28:06Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > I would if none of them hit me. If I were flying an interstellar aircraft carrier I doubt I’d be bothered if all of them hit, having about the explosive power of a hand grenade. You’re trying to make light of something major just to get past the point and not have to answer it directly. I’s called Argument from Diminishment and Minimization. When you saw them coming at you before they missed, you would be shitting bricks and praying to the god(s) you’ve renounced. You are making assumptions about interstellar aircraft carriers that you have an a priori belief that they don’t exist. That’s like saying, “I don’t believe in faries, but they probably have dust on their wings.” A hand grenade would blow your ass away. ---
**Author:** ![dinoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/57 "2009-08-13T17:19:33Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > You’re trying to make light of something major just to get past the point and not have to answer it directly. I’s called Argument from Diminishment and Minimization. You realize that you just chided someone for not taking a hypothetical (and a bit far-fetched) question seriously? :dubious: May I go back to the actual evidence we have? 1. We have anecdotes from pilots/eyewitnesses. 2. We have photos/video I’m pretty sure that’s it, but… 1. Anecdotes aren’t evidence. 2. Most photos are known hoaxes or misinterpretations. The others _could_ be more of the same, or they _could_ be actual alien craft, but all we can concede is that they’re _presently unknown to us_ (this in no way favors an alien explanation). Further, there is other evidence that would lead me to suspect that these two possibilities are not equally possible: 1. We _do_ know that human perception is limited and fallible. 2. Cameras _can_ have technical problems and such to and give misleading images. 3. Radar _can_ malfunction (especially 50 years ago); either internally or by picking up natural phenomena as false positives. So, am I justified to conclude that aliens exist based on my information or should I be cautious and assume the knowledge of the latter three are more likely? ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/58 "2009-08-13T18:43:57Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > You’re trying to make light of something major just to get past the point and not have to answer it directly. I’s called Argument from Diminishment and Minimization. When you saw them coming at you before they missed, you would be shitting bricks and praying to the god(s) you’ve renounced. > > You are making assumptions about interstellar aircraft carriers that you have an a priori belief that they don’t exist. That’s like saying, “I don’t believe in faries, but they probably have dust on their wings.” > > A hand grenade would blow your ass away. You’re the one that brought in me flying an airplane. I assume that an object of that size that can fly at 10,000 MPH in the Earth’s atmosphere would be able to handle a hand grenade, yes. The point is moot if it “flew away” before he could shoot though, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/59 "2009-08-13T19:03:38Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Blue Book was specifically implemented to debunk UFOs, then disbanded when someone in charge realized that they couldn’t explain everything. J. Alan Hynek was the expert who quit after a while. He said they would reject any evidence that did not fit their preconceptions. He also was one who urged them to start investigating them for the purpose of "debunking ’ the sightings. He became a big time believer. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841/60 "2009-08-13T22:12:37Z")
> [@glee](#): > > 1. As others have said, **he waited 50 years to mention this story**. > No urgency then. :rolleyes: I got no dog in this hunt, but I have to point out that the records are being declassified (or have been by now I guess); that may be why he is speaking out now. > [@Henrichek](#): > > You obviously don’t know how Americans operate. Shoot first, ask questions later, or in some cases, figure out what you actually shot at after. He was ordered by shoot by “RAF Controllers”. RAF=British. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sts-80-ufo-video/505841.md?page=4)