# Student charged for stealing free milk. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 25, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625 "2016-05-25T03:55:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/41 "2016-05-25T16:23:51Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Seriously? > > Kids need to learn that cops are dangerous people who will beat you, arrest you, or kill you if they become aware of you? > > If that’s the lesson you want to teach, then mission accomplished. Well you just go to Walmart and steal a few things. See what happens! ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/42 "2016-05-25T16:41:07Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > No. I dispute that this is universal police practice, even in cases where it is certain that a violation has occurred, such as when you were pulled over for speeding. That’s hardly a fair comparison since most people don’t get arrested for speeding but most people do get arrested for stealing. But if you want to use the speeding example, next time you get pulled over for speeding, don’t pull over, let the cops chase you for a few blocks and then see if they simply tell you that you shouldn’t have done that. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/43 "2016-05-25T17:03:54Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > If so, I’d say it’s because the cop lacks training or self-control. In what way did he exhibit a lack of self control? Did he beat the kid black and blue? Did he yell and scream at the kid until he was out of breath? > [@Peremensoe](#): > > He _isn’t_ the boy’s parent, and he cannot be sure that the kid has done anything wrong. Go read up on **probable cause**. The cop doesn’t have to be absolutely sure, just reasonably sure. If you get charged with something - misdemeanor, felony, whatever - you are entitled to your day in court, during which a judge will hear the relevant evidence and make a determination of whether you’re guilty or not. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > I don’t see that he has any right to be touching a child in any way that would require a “yank” to get away from. Cops don’t have _rights_, they have _authority._ In particular, if they have [reasonable suspicion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion) that a crime may have been committed (e.g. you have jumped back into the lunch line and now appear to be deliberately concealing a carton of milk), they have the authority to physically detain you while they determine whether or not there is probable cause to charge/arrest you. While you are being detained (before you are even arrested), they have the authority to take steps to prevent you from fleeing the scene if they think you might be a flight risk. Depending on the circumstances, this may be a hand on the shoulder, a tight grip on your shirt, placing you in handcuffs, or even placing you in the back of their patrol vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/44 "2016-05-25T17:20:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you think children should be trained to mouth off to police? Black children in the USA should be and often are raised to fear the police and to avoid them whenever possible. The matter at hand is just one of many examples as to why. Trying to give a kid a criminal record for not stealing milk is obscene. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/45 "2016-05-25T17:21:57Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > You do realize this is what police officers do, right? Police officers should protect children from people such as that officer. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/46 "2016-05-25T17:24:21Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Or perhaps learn that they are petty authoritarians to be feared and avoided. You are taking my quote out of context. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > What does that have to with anything? > > Today most kids don’t encounter “beat patrolmen” like they did once upon a time, so the school is essentially the place where kids can learn to trust cops. This isn’t the case for every cop embedded in a school, but for many schools the purpose of the cop is to be an Officer Friendly, someone the kids can get to know, trust, who can provide some informal mentorship etc. I said that **I was not commenting** on this situation, but responding to the OP’s assertion that cops in schools is a weird, strange thing that would never happen in the happy times he was in school. In many schools, the officers are in the schools for exactly the reason I said. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/47 "2016-05-25T17:47:13Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Black children in the USA should be and often are raised to fear the police and to avoid them whenever possible. The matter at hand is just one of many examples as to why. This happens, and the result is they get beat up, arrested, and sometimes killed for running away. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/48 "2016-05-25T17:49:05Z")
If you thought you were going to get beaten up, arrested, or shot by a cop, would you run away? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/49 "2016-05-25T17:50:32Z")
How is it that the cop could independently file larceny charges against the kid? In cases of theft, isn’t the decision up to the victim - in this case, the school? Did the school actually say they wanted the kid charged? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/50 "2016-05-25T17:52:00Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If you thought you were going to get beaten up, arrested, or shot by a cop, would you run away? If it seems just as likely to happen if you don’t run, then yes, because you have some chance of getting away. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/51 "2016-05-25T17:55:49Z")
How does the free milk program work? Is there just free milk in the refrigerator and everyone helps themselves, or do certain (presumably low-income) students help themselves? Or is there a ticket that they get punched, or a plastic card like a debit card that they present? I still don’t understand how people thought he was stealing the milk. Is there a sort of check-out line he didn’t go thru? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/52 "2016-05-25T18:01:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I still don’t understand how people thought he was stealing the milk. Is there a sort of check-out line he didn’t go thru? When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/53 "2016-05-25T18:09:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I still don’t understand how people thought he was stealing the milk. Is there a sort of check-out line he didn’t go thru? See [post #28.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19356504&postcount=28) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/54 "2016-05-25T18:20:23Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > See [post #28.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19356504&postcount=28) I still don’t see how someone would assume taking free milk is stealing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/55 "2016-05-25T18:31:23Z")
Why not both? The kid shouldn’t have resisted arrest, but the officer shouldn’t have arrested him in the first place. Even if he stole the milk, that’s an awfully minor crime. Stealing food worth less than a dollar? You handcuff a kid when you suspect him off that? How about starting by asking the kid if he paid for the milk, or some similar less aggressive interaction. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/56 "2016-05-25T18:33:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How does the free milk program work? Is there just free milk in the refrigerator and everyone helps themselves, or do certain (presumably low-income) students help themselves? Or is there a ticket that they get punched, or a plastic card like a debit card that they present? > > I still don’t understand how people thought he was stealing the milk. Is there a sort of check-out line he didn’t go thru? > > Regards, > Shodan My understanding from knowing people on free milk/lunch programs is that you go through the line like everyone else, but when it comes time to pay, you give them your “free lunch” card instead of cash or the school lunch card your parents can put money on (like a low-tech debit card). In the past sometimes this was done by putting a sticker on the lunch card to signify “this person doesn’t have to pay”, but due to the stigma of having a sticker to stay “hey everyone I’m poor”, the system was changed to where you swipe your card like everyone else and the machine just knows not to try and get any money out of your account. If the kid decided to just bypass the line and walk out with a half-pint of milk, that would look exactly the same as stealing. If he’s entitled to the milk for free, he would still have to go through the line and get his card swiped. (or if he forgot the first time around, he probably should still have mentioned something to a lunchlady or whatever). I’m not surprised by half the dope’s reaction but it’s pretty sad. Cop sees a kid take milk and try to hide it and not pay for it. Cop stops kid. Kid mouths off and jerks away. Cop arrests kid. Kid learns to be polite to cops. Only problem I see is the kid wasn’t taught to be polite to everyone he runs into in daily life in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/57 "2016-05-25T18:36:12Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Why not both? > > The kid shouldn’t have resisted arrest, but the officer shouldn’t have arrested him in the first place. Even if he stole the milk, that’s an awfully minor crime. Stealing food worth less than a dollar? You handcuff a kid when you suspect him off that? How about starting by asking the kid if he paid for the milk, or some similar less aggressive interaction. The cop DID start out with a less aggressive interaction. The handcuffs only came out when the kid acted like a jackass instead of explaining why he was taking the milk. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/58 "2016-05-25T18:51:29Z")
Handcuffs were STILL completely unnecessary. And if the kid was white, the cop wouldn’t have done anything to begin with. This was a combination of racism and an Eric Cartman cop. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/59 "2016-05-25T18:54:10Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > The cop DID start out with a less aggressive interaction. > [@](#): > > An officer grabbed Ryan when the boy was standing on the lunch line getting milk, his mother said. Oh yes, grabbing him is very non-aggressive. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625/60 "2016-05-25T19:09:22Z")
I just love how this board can hear one side of a story which has \*at least \* one other side (the cop’s) and probably 2-3 more (the school, other witnesses, etc.) and from that decide that things were handled appropriately/inappropriately. Surely that one side is 100% factually true and complete… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-charged-for-stealing-free-milk/755625.md?page=4)