Student Kidnaps the Eucharist... PZ Myers to the Rescue!

The BBQ Pit
261

[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]
If you’ve got both sides covered here, why attempt to engage me? You’ve obviously got my side without even having to consult me.
[/QUOTE]

Way to weasel out of replying there, you fucking pussy. What, did you think I’d forget what we were talking about? I said you were talking about christian beliefs, you challenged me to show you where, and I did. So do you have anything to say about it now?

Want to tell me the chapter and verse in the bible that backs up your beliefs? Or just admit that you made them up yourself and pretend that the bible backs you up? I know it can be hard to admit that the bible doesn’t say what you want it to say. You don’t quite feel comfortable with your bigotry and hate, it doesn’t feel just right to you, does it? But, if you can convince yourself that the bible makes your hate and bigotry OK, then all of a sudden all those dirty little feelings are not only justified, they’re righteous! You’re a good person, one of god’s chosen! And when someone points out that the bible doesn’t really say what you need it to say, you get really, really defensive, and scared, and angry.

262

I keep getting a picture in my mind. A guy goes into a church and grabs a communion wafer. He holds a gun up to it and says if you don’t give me the collections Jesus is going to get it.

263

[QUOTE=gonzomax]
I keep getting a picture in my mind. A guy goes into a church and grabs a communion wafer. He holds a gun up to it and says if you don’t give me the collections Jesus is going to get it.
[/QUOTE]

Meh. He’s supposed to be able to resurrect Himself. Go ahead, shoot the cracker, I’d love to see you brag about that to your fellow inmates. :slight_smile:

264

[QUOTE=gonzomax]
I keep getting a picture in my mind. A guy goes into a church and grabs a communion wafer. He holds a gun up to it and says if you don’t give me the collections Jesus is going to get it.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, for quite a while I’ve had this bothersome image in my mind:

Ugh!

But the portrayed victim here would be able to feel pain, and has the desire to continue to live. Would the deity allegedly present in the host even be able to feel pain?

(According to Catholic teaching? - Orthodox teaching? - “Real Presence” Lutheran teaching? - and so on…)

I’m serious in asking this.

  • TBJ
265

[QUOTE=True Blue Jack]
But the portrayed victim here would be able to feel pain, and has the desire to continue to live. Would the deity allegedly present in the host even be able to feel pain?
[/QUOTE]

What, you think being shot hurts less than being eaten? :eek:

266

They devised a test for this exact problem in John Carpenter’s The Thing.

267

Okay, so, they lock Jesus in a hut out back, and when they check on him, he’s building a spaceship…

Wait, I’m not sure I follow.

268

[QUOTE= Shirley]

Want to tell me the chapter and verse in the bible that backs up your beliefs? Or just admit that you made them up yourself and pretend that the bible backs you up? I know it can be hard to admit that the bible doesn’t say what you want it to say. You don’t quite feel comfortable with your bigotry and hate, it doesn’t feel just right to you, does it? But, if you can convince yourself that the bible makes your hate and bigotry OK, then all of a sudden all those dirty little feelings are not only justified, they’re righteous! You’re a good person, one of god’s chosen! And when someone points out that the bible doesn’t really say what you need it to say, you get really, really defensive, and scared, and angry.
[/QUOTE]

What in the name of Creation are you on about?

[QUOTE= RTFirefly]
Since I’m late to the party, would you forgive me if, rather than wading through five pages of thread to find the answer, I simply asked you if we are in agreement that this is an exceedingly disproportionate response, and that the disproportionality is directly connected with the issues surrounding the sacred status of the wafers?
[/QUOTE]

We are in agreement. Death threats = douchetastic, belief in the holiness of the Host notwithstanding.

[QUOTE= RTFirefly]

Aside from that, the “disruptor”'s actions were less noteworthy than cutting someone off in traffic would be.
[/QUOTE]

That’s the problem, though,that there is no “aside from that.”

If I’m hanging out with my pals on the Great Lawn, and we’re doing our thing, talking about the excellent prospects of your New York Metropolitan Baseball Club, and some douche runs by, grabs a handful of our orange-and-blue Oreos, and runs off crumbling them up and cackling, “Mets SUCK! Anybody who likes the Mets doesn’t know SHIT about baseball! And you’re BAD PEOPLE, too!”

Well, shit. I don’t particularly know WHAT I’d do in a situation like that. I don’t think I’d get off my blanket to chase him down, though.
But Mass, which is a solemn rite, Communion, which is a holy ritual, and the Host, which I believe is both fully a wafer and fully the corpus of my Savior- I might try to tackle that guy.

269

I’ll type slowly so you can follow along. You made a number of claims about what christianity teaches you to do. I pointed out that your representations of christian beliefs bear no resemblance to the bible, and asked from whence your beliefs came. You acted like a total ass, making it clear that you have no idea what the bible says about your beliefs. I pointed out that you have made up your beliefs out of whole cloth, and speculated on a reason why you therefore defend your beliefs so vigorously. Did you follow that? It’s nothing that could not have been easily understood by any reasonably intelligent person who has been reading the thread.

270

[QUOTE= Shirley]
I’ll type slowly so you can follow along. You made a number of claims about what christianity teaches you to do. I pointed out that your representations of christian beliefs bear no resemblance to the bible, and asked from whence your beliefs came. You acted like a total ass, making it clear that you have no idea what the bible says about your beliefs. I pointed out that you have made up your beliefs out of whole cloth, and speculated on a reason why you therefore defend your beliefs so vigorously. Did you follow that? It’s nothing that could not have been easily understood by any reasonably intelligent person who has been reading the thread.
[/QUOTE]

Again, you’ve got my side all figured out, so what’s the point?

Ask a decent question, bereft of whatever it is that’s so poisonous about you, without cherry-picking from dozens of posts in different contexts, and you’d be much more likely to get the kind of answer you want.

Unless, of course, you actually don’t want that kind of answer.

In which case, carry on.

271

[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]
Again, you’ve got my side all figured out, so what’s the point?

Ask a decent question, bereft of whatever it is that’s so poisonous about you, without cherry-picking from dozens of posts in different contexts, and you’d be much more likely to get the kind of answer you want.

Unless, of course, you actually don’t want that kind of answer.

In which case, carry on.
[/QUOTE]

My questions are clearly laid out in post 231.

272

[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]
And the offense is not trivial if it offends a great number of people.
[/QUOTE]
Black men dating white women offends a great number of people. Is that a non trivial offense? Should they be castigated for it?

273

You’re fantasizing about using violence against a person because he didn’t put a fucking cracker in his mouth quick enough to please you, and **I’m **poisonous.

You are an ugly person. And I’m not talking about your outside.

274

[QUOTE= Shirley]
You’re fantasizing about using violence against a person because he didn’t put a fucking cracker in his mouth quick enough to please you, and I’m poisonous.
[/QUOTE]

You’re lying.

275

[QUOTE= me]
Sharing doesn’t extend to the point where one’s own sacrifice hurts one’s community. If some stranger comes up and asks me for half my loaf of bread, yet it is all I have (and still insufficient) to feed my family, it is no sin to pint him toward the soup kitchen.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE= Shirley]
Cite? Chapter and verse? Matthew 25 would beg to differ (sheep and the goats), as would Luke 12 (give no thought to what you will eat, god will take care of you, etc…)
[/QUOTE]

Well, there’s always 1 Timothy: “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

There’s Ephesians: “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”

There are plenty of places where Scriptural authority provides that one ought look after his family; his interest in taking good care of those to whom he has joined in the sight of God or those whose presence in his life are a gift from God is paramount- those people are his responsibility.

It would be better if no one starved, but a man must feed his family first, and to choose between feeding another who has alternate means or feeding his family for whom he is the only means is no choice at all.

Of course, you have to look past your own vitriol and you have to be interested in Bible study to get past the trendy stuff, and they certainly don’t print this in “The Big Book Of Bible Verses To Cherry-Pick for the Purposes of Pissing Off Theists (KJV),” but it does exist.

Being a Christian is a whole lot more than looking at a rulebook like it was one of those old Choose-Your-Own-Adventures.

276

[QUOTE=Cervaise]
Okay, so, they lock Jesus in a hut out back, and when they check on him, he’s building a spaceship…

Wait, I’m not sure I follow.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t follow either but so far your post makes the most sense.

277

[QUOTE=Wile E]
I don’t follow either but so far your post makes the most sense.
[/QUOTE]
No no no! They poke the Host with a red-hot wire, and if it feels pain it screams and attacks!

What does Jesus need with a spaceship?

278

[QUOTE=Terrifel]
What does Jesus need with a spaceship?
[/QUOTE]

How else’s he gonna get to Venus?

279

No, Jesus goes to Mars. Venus is for Lilith.

280

[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
How else’s he gonna get to Venus?
[/QUOTE]

I must admit, that’s a good one. Sort of a slow-burning chuckle…