# Student loan forgiveness: A poll **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138 "2021-01-21T21:08:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/241 "2021-01-25T21:44:12Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > SDMB, a group that leans left We what now? Lean heavily centrist maybe. > [@dalej42](#): > > That tells me all I need to know about what a foolish and unpopular policy this would be and the Biden administration shouldn’t even entertain it. There’s no need to waste political capital on it. It hopefully doesn’t tell you all you need to know about its foolishness, you should also consider the idea on its merits aside from its popularity. > **[New Poll Shows Substantial, Bipartisan Support For Student Loan Forgiveness...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2020/09/25/new-poll-shows-substantial-bipartisan-support-for-student-loan-forgiveness-and-other-relief-for-borrowers/?sh=7f1f08f92b7c)** > > A new poll released today by Student Defense, the Defend Students Action Fund, and Data for Progress indicates there is substantial, bipartisan support for student loan relief programs and widespread student loan forgiveness. Anyway, the outer larger world outside the message board we are all typing into thinks more generously than us. Maybe a lot of older people on here who have paid off their debts already or had rich parents? Ooopsy daisy thats old here is newer > **[Americans want to cancel student loans — but not all of them](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/12/11/22167555/biden-student-loan-cancellation-poll)** > > Student debt forgiveness is especially popular among people with student debt. Those without it are more split. But it doesn’t show my point as much but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/242 "2021-01-25T22:43:04Z")
I have not read the first 241 posts, but I think loan forgiveness is a good economic tool if there are criteria based on need rather than a blanket forgiveness. People with the means should make payments, but in this economy many cannot either because they are unemployed or underemployed. . Arguments that it’s not fair to other people who paid their loans are sympathetic but this sort of thing happens all the time, every time there is a change in the tax code. Jimmy Carter pardoned draft dodgers but lots of other people answered the call and fulfilled their service. The federal government established a Gainful Employment rule such that institutions had to have a certain percentage of their graduates find gainful employment for that institution to qualify for its students to receive federal aid, including loans. It was largely seen as a way to hold for-profit universities accountable for their results. But DeVos rolled that rule back. Now it’s time to look at it again. ---
**Author:** ![Krispy\_Original](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@Krispy\_Original](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krispy_Original)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/243 "2021-01-25T23:23:34Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > > [@Krispy\_Original](#): > > > > And get over yourself and the it’s not fair because I paid mine. Yes, it’s true, you did, but that was then and this is now. How does someone getting a boost actually hurt YOU? > > But if my taxes are going to pay someone else’s loans, then yes it does hurt me because those tax dollars aren’t going to other necessary programs. And it hurts everyone who a) chose not to go to college because of the cost, or b) chose a cheaper college, or c) worked while going to college part time to avoid loans, or d) worked two jobs to get their loans paid off. Wouldn’t this be rewarding people for being irresponsible – who takes out $100,000 in loans without some clue how they’re going to pay it off? Nobody gets “hurt” because of decisions they made or actions they took in the past concerning college as a result of the future partial loan forgiveness. This kind of logic you are using is like saying you paid off your home mortgage 10 years ago at 8% and that you are “harmed” by people today getting 3%. You are pissed because somebody is getting a better deal than you. You will have to work through that in your heart and mind, but no, you aren’t materially hurt by it. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/244 "2021-01-25T23:50:04Z")
Student loan forgiveness tends to help those most likely to be high earners. > **[The Distributional Effects of Student Loan Forgiveness](https://www.nber.org/papers/w28175)** > > Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals. We shouldn’t enact public policy because of a few very loud types with sob stories. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/245 "2021-01-26T02:08:34Z")
> [@Krispy\_Original](#): > > This kind of logic you are using is like saying you paid off your home mortgage 10 years ago at 8% and that you are “harmed” by people today getting 3%. > > You are pissed because somebody is getting a better deal than you. You will have to work through that in your heart and mind, but no, you aren’t materially hurt by it. The home mortgage comparison is backward. It’s more like I got a mortgage for 8%, paid it off. You get a mortgage for 8%, but after a few years, you realize the housing market is flat & you won’t be able to sell the house for a profit, so you decide that your rate really should be 3% so let the government (i.e. taxpayers) pick up the other 5%, or maybe just the whole mortgage. Of course you get to keep your house because it’s not your fault life isn’t fair. Seems to me that you’re the one who’s pissed because people aren’t jumping at the chance to pay off your college loans. So maybe you need to get over yourself – no one was forced to take out college loans & if you did, you agreed to repay them. Lots of people get into trouble with credit cards, are you willing to pay off their balance? It’s exactly the same. And yes I am materially hurt – I have less money because I spent it on repaying loans, or the extended college time to avoid loans. Plus the money I lose paying off other people’s loans. While you walk away with a free college education plus room & board and that car you bought with your loans. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/246 "2021-01-26T02:10:54Z")
Not everyone bases policy decisions on what is best for them personally. Some people think about society at large and how it would be affected, even if the proposed policy hurts them personally. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/247 "2021-01-26T02:40:50Z")
And, as I said upthread, it’s not even clear if people who don’t have student debt are hurt by forgiveness. I don’t have student debt and I do have a mortgage. I’m basically betting that my housing value is going to increase so that it pays off for me to pay off my condo with interest. If enough of the country can’t get to the point where they can buy a house, my bet is going to fail to pay off at some point. I don’t think it helps my interests to keep the population of people who are underwater on their student loans as high as it is now. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/248 "2021-01-26T06:07:18Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > So, 36% of the SDMB, a group that leans left and is more highly educated than the general population says, ‘No Forgiveness.’ I did say it should be dischargeable in bankruptcy. But no giveaways. Let them show a judge they cant afford to pay it back. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/249 "2021-01-26T06:07:57Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > We what now? Lean heavily centrist maybe. Find me some trump voters. We are generally moderate… for liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/250 "2021-01-26T15:26:07Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > So, 36% of the SDMB, a group that leans left… Huh? No they don’t unless you are considering everything to the left of a Trumper a liberal. SDMB is much closer to center politically (on the whole, certainly there are individuals who differ). If you want to divide it more then I’d say socially liberal and economically conservative as a group overall. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/251 "2021-01-26T15:39:56Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Not everyone bases policy decisions on what is best for them personally. Some people think about society at large and how it would be affected, even if the proposed policy hurts them personally. How does it benefit society to promote fiscal irresponsibility – that’s a problem at the national level already. If the loans are just forgiven, why wouldn’t these students then go buy houses they can’t afford because they can expect the mortgage to be forgiven down the road. And it doesn’t solve the problem – college costs just go up if they know the government will cover them. A better policy would be to establish programs along the lines of the WPA of the 1930s and/or Americorp, which would provide a) jobs and b)opportunities for students to work off their loans by, for example, working in needy neighborhoods. The students would learn skills, pay off their loans, and the folks who showed fiscal responsibility don’t get screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/252 "2021-01-26T15:50:08Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > How does it benefit society to promote fiscal irresponsibility – that’s a problem at the national level already. If the loans are just forgiven, why wouldn’t these students then go buy houses they can’t afford because they can expect the mortgage to be forgiven down the road. And it doesn’t solve the problem – college costs just go up if they know the government will cover them. > > A better policy would be to establish programs along the lines of the WPA of the 1930s and/or Americorp, which would provide a) jobs and b)opportunities for students to work off their loans by, for example, working in needy neighborhoods. The students would learn skills, pay off their loans, and the folks who showed fiscal responsibility don’t get screwed. (emphasis added) You’re make a good argument and then you undermine it by adding vindictiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/253 "2021-01-26T15:51:52Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > How does it benefit society to promote fiscal irresponsibility Like the fiscal irresponsibility of the big banks making inflated loans? Like the fiscal irresponsibility of the universities charging out the ass? Why does fiscal responsibility only apply to the little guy? Why don’t corporations have to be fiscally responsible? Bail out the students and make the banks and unis eat part of the loss, not just the taxpayer. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/254 "2021-01-26T15:59:27Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > How does it benefit society to promote fiscal irresponsibility… How does it promote fiscal irresponsibility? Was anyone taking these loans doing so with the impression that they would not have to pay them back? If a loan forgiveness happens do you think anyone taking out a new loan will be doing so with the assumption that the government will erase their debt? No and no. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/255 "2021-01-26T16:03:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If a loan forgiveness happens do you think anyone taking out a new loan will be doing so with the assumption that the government will erase their debt? > > No and no. If future forgiveness doesn’t happen, how would the current crop of loan applicants be able to repay their excessive debt load? I’m not seeing how the applicants of the past need to have loan forgiveness but the applicants of today won’t have that same need. The costs of college are higher now, so current students will likely have even a larger debt load that they’ll need to repay. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/256 "2021-01-26T16:04:18Z")
Is even a single person suggesting forgiving student debt WITHOUT restructuring the way we pay for higher education? ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/257 "2021-01-26T16:22:07Z")
The discussions related to the presidental XO seems to be just around blanket forgiveness without any plans for restructuring how students pay for school or the costs of school. If forgiveness is done similar to the mortgage restructuring, then that could be positive. To give relief for the 2008 housing crash, the program gave borrowers relief and created a lot more requirements around getting loans in the first place. If this cost restructuring was combined with the relief, there would be more support for debt forgiveness. I see the cost problem continuing if it’s just wiping the debt away without doing anything to prevent it from recurring in the future. So I support: - Free money debt relief? No - Debt relief with cost restructuring to ensure debt relief will not be needed in the future? Yes ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/258 "2021-01-26T17:11:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Is even a single person suggesting forgiving student debt WITHOUT restructuring the way we pay for higher education? Well, the OP’s poll doesn’t say anything about restructuring the way we pay for higher education. It’s just a choice between forgiving student debt (without any way of indicating what else we’d be doing at the same time) or not doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/259 "2021-01-26T17:19:57Z")
We could restructure first - and then forgive debt if its still needed. The restructuring part is the more important so we address the root cause. And understanding what is possible in restructuring is also vital - and will help address how to forgive debt. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/260 "2021-01-26T17:52:24Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You’re make a good argument and then you undermine it by adding vindictiveness. What’s vindictive?!?!? People who take out loans and don’t pay them off are NOT fiscally responsible. Recognizing that is hardly vindictive, it’s reality. You’re trying to ignore the many, many people who paid off their loans or found a way through college to avoid them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138.md?page=14)