# Student loan forgiveness: A poll **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138 "2021-01-21T21:08:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/81 "2021-01-22T16:27:48Z")
I did 8 years total military service (reserve) to pay for my college. It was arduous, not fun at all, detracted from my study time and put limits on what I could pursue after college. Furthermore, tuition is now 6x what it used to be. I would not at all feel like a sap if college were free & all debt canceled. I would be glad that nobody else had to go through the same pointless exercise that I did. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/82 "2021-01-22T16:36:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Upper middle class and up wouldn’t be affected, so it’s good for those who are already well off. The student isn’t always the one that takes on debt, the parents often do, and they actually have assets, so they wouldn’t be so cavalier about discharging their debts. Part of the solution is the states need to better fund their state schools. State schools are depending too much on students for their revenues. Most of state schools’ funding should be directly from the state. Academically qualified people should be able to attend a state school for a low cost to the student. Not completely free, students need to make some financial investment in themselves. But the cost at a low-end community college should be low enough that working 20 hours a week at a minimum wage job while enrolled should be enough to pay tuition, room, and board. Higher tier state universities might require a scholarship, or a loan (see above). Private schools are an unnecessary luxury. Our educational system should not be set up to support them or students going to them. Let the private schools survive by making their cases directly to those with disposable wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/83 "2021-01-22T16:41:23Z")
We are dying for welders. We don’t have enough plumbers. The local community college program for solar installers has a 100% placement rate. There are a whole lot of jobs that require trade or tech school. On the other hand, we have more than enough people graduating with degrees in Political Science heading to law school. Even our need for STEM majors - a young friend of mine graduated with a four year CSci degree from a respected public university - and has been un or under employed for about 25% of the time since he graduated four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/84 "2021-01-22T17:01:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Part of the solution is the states need to better fund their state schools. State schools are depending too much on students for their revenues. Most of state schools’ funding should be directly from the state. Academically qualified people should be able to attend a state school for a low cost to the student. Not completely free, students need to make some financial investment in themselves. This is absolutely true. The only part I would quibble on is how much should be on the student’s shoulders. They _are_ there to learn, and even a 20 hour part time job can make that rather difficult. I had to work full time when I went to college, and my teachers didn’t care at all about how much time I had to do the work they assigned. This is also assuming that the student can _find_ employment that would give those 20 hours, and be flexible to work around the school’s schedule. I think a no frills, especially associate’s level degree, should be attainable free of charge. > [@Pleonast](#): > > Private schools are an unnecessary luxury. Our educational system should not be set up to support them or students going to them. Let the private schools survive by making their cases directly to those with disposable wealth. More or less agreed, though it should be pointed out that a number of people who go to private universities actually do so on some form of scholarship. I have no problem with the school or private entities subsidizing them. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/85 "2021-01-22T17:05:17Z")
It’s a damned shame that colleges cost so much and that it is impossible to work your way through college as I did. I started at an ivy in 1954 and a year’s tuition was a whole $700 (this is less than $7000 in 2021) and I worked and took classes part-time for three years. Then I got a $500 loan for the 4th year and graduated in the 5th. And lived at home. This is utterly impossible today. The tuition at my school is now approaching $60,000 and I am not sure commuting students are allowed, let alone part-timers. Part of the reason for the wildly excess costs are the country club atmosphere. Another reason is the cancerous growth in administration. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/86 "2021-01-22T17:08:22Z")
I agree. We have far too many people going into a lot of debt to go to SPLACs. And I love SPLACs, my youngest is at one right now, great choice for them. But we spent a LOT of years living far below our means so two kids to go to SPLACs if they wanted (my eldest wants to be a welder - and if Covid doesn’t derail him AGAIN should have his certificate by this time next year :)) Definitely better funding of state schools - especially the state 2 and 4 year college programs, who can educate more students closer to home at less cost than most state’s flagship programs. But as I said upthread, we really need high school counselors who do much better coaching on post high school options. Realistic coaching on cost, on employability, on your chances of getting a scholarship. On why that small private school with the ideal quad might be a great school, but that you will be paying for it when you are 30. On why living at home and commuting might be a better financial choice. And on not four year college options - military, trade school, jobs available with just a high school education. So that 17 year old kids and their parents who aren’t educated about all this can make good decisions. And we need to make it clearer to parents as they leave the hospital with their little bundle of joy that kids are a long term financial commitment - and the chances of your little bundle of joy getting a four year free ride aren’t great, so start that 529 now. Literature on saving for college should be handed out with the same intensity as breastfeeding information. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/87 "2021-01-22T17:10:26Z")
I’d be interested in exploring alternatives, like “Forgive all _interest_ on student loan debt,” or “Forgive all student loan debt above a certain percentage of the person’s income.” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/88 "2021-01-22T17:15:53Z")
Another reason is Baumol’s cost disease. And another is that technology has changed. In 1954 a college might have had a telescope and maybe an electron microscope. Now even the Social Sciences and Arts Departments have tech needs. And for a lot of colleges, their facilities costs have increased dramatically - their old buildings have aged, but they want to keep them because old buildings grant gravitas to a University. For a bit, I worked for Facilities Management at the University of Minnesota - the cost of upkeep on buildings built 100 years ago was intense. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/89 "2021-01-22T17:32:50Z")
I think we need to really reassess what students are gaining from their university experience. There are probably plenty of people enrolled in universities who would be better served working in a well-rounded technical school or apprenticeship program on campuses that don’t build multi-million dollar dormitories and intramural sports complexes, and aren’t loaded with bureaucracies. I’m not at all anti-higher ed – have a bachelor’s and a master’s and don’t regret that experience. But I sometimes do regret the price tag, and having worked at major universities, I have seen where higher ed is, in some circumstances, a racket that’s out of control. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/90 "2021-01-22T17:41:03Z")
If you borrow money, you pay it back. It’s kinda the backbone of capitalism. Some people think capitalism is a bad thing, but I don’t. In a perfect world everyone could get a free Harvard education, a free 3 bedroom 2 bath house, free reliable transportation, free health care. All those things cost money. Someone has to pay for it. Sure, tax the rich. Tax the 1% 99%. Ok that will pay for everything for about 3 days ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/91 "2021-01-22T17:41:55Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > We are dying for welders. We don’t have enough plumbers. The local community college program for solar installers has a 100% placement rate Can you give your family a middle class lifestyle as a welder or plumber? If so, why are people not choosing those careers? If not, why would you expect people to choose those paths? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/92 "2021-01-22T17:42:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > This is absolutely true. The only part I would quibble on is how much should be on the student’s shoulders. They _are_ there to learn, and even a 20 hour part time job can make that rather difficult. I had to work full time when I went to college, and my teachers didn’t care at all about how much time I had to do the work they assigned. My “20 hours minimum wage pays for tuition, room, and board” is a suggestion for the student’s cost for attending a community college. I don’t intend to mean that students must work. They could get help from parents, spouses, scholarships, etc. Even if a student had to rely entirely on loans to pay for community college, at that cost the loans will be reasonable and easily repayable. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I think a no frills, especially associate’s level degree, should be attainable free of charge. Children’s education should be free, but I think adults should pay if they can’t get scholarships. Of course, that’s contingent on the cost being reasonable. On the other hand, I’m in favor of a universal basic income (UBI). Which I’d put at somewhere around half-time at minimum wage. 😃 If we’re going to subsidize adults, we should subsidize _all_ adults. But UBI is a taller mountain. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/93 "2021-01-22T17:47:28Z")
Welders and plumbers are skilled trades and pay quite well. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/94 "2021-01-22T17:48:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > As noted in my cite, when congress passed the law that brought 401ks into existence it was only done after companies were allowed to push their own stocks. I have a 401k with a very big company and they havent even _mentioned_ it, nor is it even a option. Again, it is by no means common. However, lets stop the hijack here, OK? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/95 "2021-01-22T17:48:54Z")
Yes, in the long run, but the bank took some loss, just not much. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/96 "2021-01-22T17:50:40Z")
> [@MustangSal](#): > > Welders and plumbers are skilled trades and pay quite well. Can we put a figure on “quite well”? Is it enough for a middle class lifestyle? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/97 "2021-01-22T17:50:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Can you give your family a middle class lifestyle as a welder or plumber? Oh gawd yes, they likely make more money that a liberal arts degree. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/98 "2021-01-22T17:54:23Z")
> **[How Much Can a Plumber Expect to Get Paid?](https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/plumber/salary)** > > Salary information for the typical plumber. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/99 "2021-01-22T17:57:58Z")
Of course that’s average pay. The roto rooter guy might make less. The plumbing contractor who re pipes your whole house, probably makes more than most of us. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138/100 "2021-01-22T18:00:45Z")
> **[Underwater Welders Make Up To $300,000 a Year - WhatWhenWhy?](https://whatwhenwhy.net/underwater-welder/)** > > Some commercial divers’ underwater welding salary can hit up to $300,000+ annually. The primary factors that affect your income are Experience, Certification, Environment, Depth of Work, Dive Methods, Underwater Welding Equipment, Distance Offshore... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-loan-forgiveness-a-poll/931138.md?page=6)