# Student Proposes Caucasian Club **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737 "2003-09-20T02:37:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/21 "2003-09-20T13:17:33Z")
Why is it if a white group has an exclusive club it’s called racist, where if a minority has an exclusive group it’s called American freedom? That’s a head scratcher. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/22 "2003-09-20T13:18:39Z")
In my high school, we had an Armenian club (large Armenian population) as well as an International Club with a Russian/Eastern European focus. Nobody thought twice about them. So it’s not like White People clubs don’t exist. 15 is plenty old enough to be a punk-ass and take up the whiny but very played out card of “why do all those other people get this thing but the (white people, christians, conservatives, whatever) don’t? Mmm? You can advocate (Hinduism, Marxism, the NAACP) all you want but if I advocated (Christinity, being White, voting for Bush) they’d all jump on me!”. It’s a pretty juvinile position. ---
**Author:** ![SunTzu2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@SunTzu2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunTzu2U)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/23 "2003-09-20T13:42:59Z")
Maybe it would not be as much of an issue with the NAACP if they called the club “The Cracker Club” or “The White Bread Club” or even “The Cotton Club” oh wait that one has already been done. :? ---
**Author:** ![Alereon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alereon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alereon)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/24 "2003-09-20T14:02:11Z")
**even sven** : Oh yes, because “I’m starting a White People’s Club because us white people don’t get to have clubs” is SOOO much more overplayed than “I’m starting a Black People’s Club because my people are oppressed by the man!” :rolleyes: Your reaction, and that of the NAACP, proves that this club will be a necessary tool to fight bigotry and hypocrisy. > [@](#): > > “It will not allow us to heal that divide that we’ve tried to overcome in the past couple of years,” Turner said. “If her motivation is to bring harmony, as she alleges, this is not the way to go.” Unless the NAACP is prepared to go on record opposing all clubs with a racial or ethnic basis, then this position is indefensible. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/25 "2003-09-20T15:06:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ramanujan \* > \*\*my first reaction was "oh those unfortunate oppressed rich white people \*\* Ya, and when I think of “oh those unfortunate oppressed rich black people” like Bill Cosby, Mike Tyson, Condoleeza Rice, Serena Williams, Eddie Murphy, Oprah… ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/26 "2003-09-20T15:21:28Z")
I think it would be hilarious if all Armenians, Azerbaijanis, and Georgians in a 500-mile radius came to meetings. They are the _real_ Caucasians, after all. ---
**Author:** ![errata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/839c29/32.png) [@errata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/errata)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/27 "2003-09-20T15:32:13Z")
Context people, context. Can you name some notably causasion oriented groups? Let’s see, we’ve got the KKK and any number of neo-nazi skinhead offshoots. How encouraging. Is it racist to recognize the fact that “white pride” has so often been associated with violence and ignorance? When the NAACP deals out mob justice to white men who dare to flirt with a black woman, I’ll understand your confusion. “White pride” in the US is completely redundant to the norms of society, and I’ve never seen it associated with any group worth it’s salt ,which is why it is suspect. Get a frikkin clue. ---
**Author:** ![Alereon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alereon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alereon)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/28 "2003-09-20T15:46:35Z")
**errata** : Equality means that all races are treated EQUALLY; if African-Americans have a club, European-Americans get to have one too. You can’t pick and choose who gets to be proud of their heritage, and who gets to celebrate it. Doing so is racism, pure and simple, and there’s no excuse for it. This isn’t a “us white folks want what the black folks are getting” argument, this is an argument that no one should be treated diferently or given different rights because of the color of their skin, period. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/29 "2003-09-20T16:02:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Paco \* > I don’t understand how people can say that this club is any less warranted than the need for an Asian American Club or a Black American Club. Of course if there is a Black club, or an Asian club, it’s perfectly legal there should be a White club. I suspect the reason for it is publicity / politics, but I’m cynical. However, Paco, if you don’t understand why minority clubs are more ‘warranted’, perhaps you could tell me when the US will elect its first Asian President. Or a Black President? Or an atheist President? Or a female president? Or an openly gay President? (Or even when one will run as a candidate of one of the main parties…) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/30 "2003-09-20T16:17:12Z")
Just for the record, Glee, if Powell _wanted_ to be President, he would be, pretty much. Solid lock in. Rice may be a contender someday. We’ve had a gay president. Probably, almost certainly, and for the time, he certainly was close to open about it. I wish I could remember the name. We’ve had a Deist president. Washington. Actually, the first few wavered from athiest to deist, and I suspect most of it was simply because the categories weren’t so strong then. Asian president? I don’t see anyone right now. Sorry. Almost could have had a jewish veep. That close? Personally, I’m glad he lost, though. ---
**Author:** ![Paco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a6a055/32.png) [@Paco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paco)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/31 "2003-09-20T16:43:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*However, Paco, if you don’t understand why minority clubs are more ‘warranted’, perhaps you could tell me when the US will elect its first Asian President. Or a Black President? Or an atheist President? Or a female president? Or an openly gay President? > \*\* Damn you got me there. I completely forgot that all white people are rich, all black people are poor and opressed, and whites have no entitlement to a sense of unity. It’s hypocritical to say that it is okay for blacks and other ethnicities to be allowed to do certain things without criticism or questioning of their motives, but as soon as a white does it then suddenly they are compared to the KKK. Using this logic it could be inferred that the Black American Clubs are actually gangs. Now that is racism. Get real. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/32 "2003-09-20T17:14:08Z")
> [@](#): > > _Ramanujan said:_ > my first reaction was “oh those unfortunate oppressed rich white people”, because there is no plight i feel quite as much empathy for as the well-off white people at expensive universities who feel like they’re being held down by the man, in the man’s obviously successful effort to empower the black man. It’s comments like this that really get poor white people pissed. Yeah all the presidents have been rich white men. That doesn’t mean that all, most, or even a significant proportion of white men have any influence or power. It’s pretty ignorant to expect all white people to “know” that they are at the top of the social ladder. ~10% of ~211,460,626 white people under poverty line= 21mill ~30% of ~34,658,190 black people under poverty line=10mill Anyway I agree with those that say the club _could_ be a productive idea. I think it won’t though. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/33 "2003-09-20T17:32:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > Just for the record, Glee, if Powell _wanted_ to be President, he would be, pretty much. Solid lock in. Rice may be a contender someday. That’s interesting - is there a poll or similar for that? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > We’ve had a gay president. Probably, almost certainly, and for the time, he certainly was close to open about it. I wish I could remember the name. We’ve had a Deist president. Washington. Actually, the first few wavered from athiest to deist, and I suspect most of it was simply because the categories weren’t so strong then. > > Asian president? I don’t see anyone right now. Sorry. Almost could have had a jewish veep. That close? Personally, I’m glad he lost, though. I got my impression from US news reports (and the fact that recent Presidents have all been rich white males). ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/34 "2003-09-20T17:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Paco \* > Damn you got me there. I completely forgot that all white people are rich, all black people are poor and opressed, and whites have no entitlement to a sense of unity. Why do you think these things? Do you not know there are poor white people, for example? :rolleyes: And do you not respect them? (Oh, and it’s spelt ‘oppressed’) My example was that all recent US Presidents were rich, white, Christian, straight males. This led me to the conclusion that there may be more reason to set up a club for people who are not in all the above categories. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Paco \* > It’s hypocritical to say that it is okay for blacks and other ethnicities to be allowed to do certain things without criticism or questioning of their motives, but as soon as a white does it then suddenly they are compared to the KKK. Using this logic it could be inferred that the Black American Clubs are actually gangs. Now that is racism. Get real. Yes, it’s certainly hypocritical (and unpleasant). Of course that’s **not** what I said. Get intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/35 "2003-09-20T18:00:52Z")
I’m not going to comment on the goodness or badness of the club, but I’ll just point out that the SJ Merc reported the other day that white folks now make up just under 50% of the population in the Bay Area (7 counties surrounding SF). Depending on how you look at it, whites could now be considered a minority in the Bay Area. Whatever that means… ---
**Author:** ![Paco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a6a055/32.png) [@Paco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paco)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/36 "2003-09-20T18:18:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*Yes, it’s certainly hypocritical (and unpleasant). > Of course that’s **not** what I said. > Get intelligent. \*\* I realize how to spell “oppressed.” It’s called a typo. Anyway, about the hypocritical part of what I post earlier, I am sorry if I made it seem like I was talking to you. That portion was directed towards others who seem to be implying that the girl should get over the woe is me attitude and realize how much better off she is than minorities. I thought that it would be clear who I was talking to by starting a seperate paragraph. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/37 "2003-09-20T18:36:00Z")
I’d have to judge it based on WHY they’re starting the club. Are they going to meet up and talk about race issues in society, cultural history, and the like? If so, fine and good. But if the idea is to get together and talk about how much all the non-white people suck, that presents a problem. This usually turns out to be the problem in these white/hetero/traditionally-religious clubs. They don’t want to form a club. They see that some group they don’t like has gotten together, and they want an officially sanctioned clique so they can wave their privates at the opposing team. ---
**Author:** ![errata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/839c29/32.png) [@errata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/errata)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/38 "2003-09-20T19:08:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alereon \* > **errata** : Equality means that all races are treated EQUALLY; if African-Americans have a club, European-Americans get to have one too. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t have one, but I have yet to see any reason why they need one, and in the context of the school’s recent history of nooses being hung near a black teacher’s room and from a tree on campus, I would have to say the school is _already_ experiencing problems with “white pride” creating divisiveness. > [@](#): > > This isn’t a “us white folks want what the black folks are getting” argument, this is an argument that no one should be treated diferently or given different rights because of the color of their skin, period. I’m not saying they don’t have a right, I’m explaining why the context is different and why it isn’t even necessary. I have yet to see any reason why they need this club or how it accomplishes anything positive at all. This may be in part to the student’s poor explanation. I definitely think European Americans could stand a lot more awareness of how the perception of race affects their lives. But just saying “well they have one too” hardly contributes to this awareness. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/39 "2003-09-20T19:51:04Z")
Jeez. My high school WAS a Caucasian club, and it was no fun at all! ---
**Author:** ![agiantdwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@agiantdwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agiantdwarf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/40 "2003-09-20T19:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ramanujan \* > \*\*my first reaction was “oh those unfortunate oppressed rich white people”, because there is no plight i feel quite as much empathy for as the well-off white people at expensive universities who feel like they’re being held down by the man, in the man’s obviously successful effort to empower the black man. > > please. > > but after reading the article, i sort of had to rethink that. yes, there is a general note of the idea that some white people think they have to fight back against the “racism” the experience. but if these people genuinely want to explore the race issue, i say more power to them. maybe in their studies of “white history” they can spot the origins of racism, and actually learn something. i just hope they don’t think they’re doing something noble fighting the oppressed rich white man’s crusade. \*\* Yes, white people invented racism and all white people go to expensive universities and eat black babies. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737.md?page=3)