# Student Proposes Caucasian Club **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737 "2003-09-20T02:37:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/81 "2003-09-22T22:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > At what point, exactly, does it become okay for whitey to have a club like this? Much like conspiracy theories in other threads, it seems that the goalposts keep moving. When was it ever _not_ OK for “whitey” to have such a club? (Heck, we still occasionally find golf clubs, corporate board rooms, and other organizations that are deliberately, exclusively white.) There has been a National Association for the Advancement of White People for years (not that I could be induced to join them). While I think the NAACP spokesman that was quoted is a bit needlessly alarmist and I think the white club idea is rather silly, I have not seen any defenses of the club that show it will accomplish for its members anything similar to what other ethnic organizations have attempted to accomplish for their members (with more or less success depending on the times and circumstances). ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/82 "2003-09-22T22:33:02Z")
> [@](#): > > have not seen any defenses of the club that show it will accomplish for its members anything similar to what other ethnic organizations have attempted to accomplish for their members What do you expect it to accomplish, Tom? Put a man on the Moon before the decade is out? Any “Yay white folks!” club that manages to survive without turning into a “Nazi clambake” is a roaring success, in my opinion. It’s a step forward. Instead of saying, oh, “We’re white, and therefore we’re better than you!” as so many other White Pride groups have done, it looks like the student hopes to say “We’re white, proud to be white, and proud to not be insecure about our race or skin color.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/83 "2003-09-22T22:42:01Z")
I think I’m going to start an Americans Club–you know, for all of us Americans. If all the other nationalities can have clubs, why can’t I? ---
**Author:** ![Godfrey\_Daniels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Godfrey\_Daniels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Godfrey_Daniels)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/84 "2003-09-22T23:24:26Z")
Because it’s unnecessary. The Iraqi’s Club said so. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/85 "2003-09-23T01:20:01Z")
I think it is unecessary for such a club to exist, but I sure do believe she has a right to have such a club. I agree about tireing of talking about it without response on Ramanujan’s part. I will say that I don’t see evidence in his past that indicates he is a racist, so I would guess that his post was made in ignorance. Or I _am_ reading into it too much. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/86 "2003-09-23T22:59:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it is unecessary for such a club to exist No more so unnecessary than a bowling club, or drama club, or football. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/87 "2003-09-24T02:12:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > **When was it ever _not_ OK for “whitey” to have such a club?** (Points up) Noticed the thread you posted to? Apparently it’s not OK. -Joe, just judging by the thread and most every cite up there ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/88 "2003-09-24T02:49:32Z")
[quote] Noticed the thread you posted to? Apparently it’s not OK. [quote] I dunno. I have seen a few posts that appeared to be knee-jerk negative reactions (with a few knee-jerk reactions in the opposite direction, as well). I have seen a few posts that expressed a fwar of what it might be or might become. I have seen several posts that thought it was a good idea. I have seen a few posts that thought it was OK. I have seen many posts hammering at tangential issues. I see no consensus that it is bad and no overwhelming majority that condemned it. It is not uiversally condemned. It is not illegal. (Note that the NAAWP has existed for a while.) I don’t see that it has ever been “not OK,” although it, like many phenomena in the U.S., has both supporters and detractors. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/89 "2003-09-25T01:50:58Z")
Personally, I don’t see what the flap is about. Since it’s intended to be open to people of all races, I truly don’t see how it’s any more racially divisive than the Black Student Union or any other racially-based organization. Any time you put an exclusionary label on something, it’s gonna cause division to some degree. And, to be honest, I think there are some few issues that are valid discussion for such a group. Like the assumption that white people automatically have it easier than people of any other race, or that white people who are proud of their racial heritage MUST be NeoNazis. If they get people of multiple races in on discussions like that, it just might lead to some meaningful advances in unity and mutual understanding. This group could turn into a KKK rally, or it could turn into a springboard for real, important changes. We certainly won’t find out which if we squash the club before it gets started. ---
**Author:** ![errata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/839c29/32.png) [@errata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/errata)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/90 "2003-09-25T02:38:50Z")
Oh my god, somebody **criticized** a club for white people. Whites are **so** oppressed. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/91 "2003-09-25T06:35:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*I’m not going to comment on the goodness or badness of the club, but I’ll just point out that the SJ Merc reported the other day that white folks now make up just under 50% of the population in the Bay Area (7 counties surrounding SF). Depending on how you look at it, whites could now be considered a minority in the Bay Area. Whatever that means… \*\* THIS is why the Caucasian Club is going to turn into a Neo Nazi clambake. There is an almost universal belief that when there are more of everyone else put together than there are white people, suddely white people are a “minority”. Clearly they are no longer an absolute majority, but anybody who calls them a minority is just plain wrong. The reason there’s nothing wrong with African American clubs and so on is because if they are sponsored by public schools, they have to admit members regardless of color. None of the minority groups have to prove their value because none of them have a history of violence (with, of course, the notable exception of black panther offshoots in schools), whereas organizations for the “advancement” of whites in the US have almost always been veneers for organizations whose main goal has been the oft-violent disenfranchisement of minorities. The girl should just have called the damn thing Culture Club… oh, wait, that one’s trademarked… ---
**Author:** ![TommyTutone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TommyTutone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommyTutone)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/92 "2003-09-25T21:14:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krokodil \* > \*\*Can’t you imagine their mixers? White bread w/ mayo _hors d’oeuvres_… Polka and Perry Como tunes… Guys concocting “events” where they have an excuse to wear a kilt in public… Gwyneth Paltrow and Eminem lookalike contests… Pork cuisine in all its forms… Swedes and Finns arguing over who’s “really” white… Lobbying to get _Tobacco Road_ on the Englisa Required Reading list… > > I am so there, man! \*\* I am certain this was meant in jest and not at all inflammatory, but how is saying the above any different than: “Can’t you imagine their mixers? Little fried chicken _hors d’oeuvres_… Rap and Tupac tunes… Guys concocting “events” where they have an excuse to wear a doo-wrap in public… Queen Latifah and Eddie Murphy lookalike contests… Watermelon cuisine in all its forms… Nigerians and Ethiopians arguing over who’s “really” black… Lobbying to get _How Stella Got Her Groove Back_ on the Ebonic Required Reading list…” Stereotypes against any color/race/religion are wrong, and having fun at the expense of ‘white folk’ is just as hateful as having fun at the expense of anyone else (except for the Swiss, EVERYBODY hates the Swiss). ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/93 "2003-09-26T00:57:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LlamaPoet \* > \*\*I am certain this was meant in jest and not at all inflammatory, but how is saying the above any different than: > > “Can’t you imagine their mixers? Little fried chicken _hors d’oeuvres_… Rap and Tupac tunes… Guys concocting “events” where they have an excuse to wear a doo-wrap in public… Queen Latifah and Eddie Murphy lookalike contests… Watermelon cuisine in all its forms… Nigerians and Ethiopians arguing over who’s “really” black… Lobbying to get _How Stella Got Her Groove Back_ on the Ebonic Required Reading list…” > \*\* Sounds like Wanda Sykes’ standup routine to me. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/94 "2003-09-26T05:19:38Z")
The point is when there is a turnover of power from White to minority in America (and it will soon), will the new minorities in power go the way of Mandela, or go the way of Mugabe? How are we preparing the new leaders for that eventual happening? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/95 "2003-09-26T10:29:11Z")
Not really a good comparison, since the treatment of minorities in the US has been several orders of magnitude better than treatment of minorities in the Third World. I would feel comfortable with any of the hundreds of minority legislators and governors being our future leaders. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/96 "2003-09-26T12:54:58Z")
> [@](#): > > The point is when there is a turnover of power from White to minority in America (and it will soon), I doubt that we are going to get a “white to minority” turnover of power. Whites may lose their majority status within the next 25 - 50 years, but no current minority will replace whites as the majority. Instead, we will have a country in which ethnic groups jockey for the position of “dominant plurality.” Even there, there is no ethnic group with both population and a coherent political stance that is likely to topple the “white” nature of power in the foreseeable future. The _census_ category that will begin tugging at “white” coattails is Hispanic, but it is unlikely that the very Right Cuban immigrants and the somewhat Leftist Mexican and Central American immigrants (to say nothing of the _Puertorriqueños_ or immigrants from Columbia, Venezuela, and Argentina) are going to create a political force that actually agrees on many subjects (any more than whites agree, as a bloc, on many subjects)–and that is not even considering that, as their immigrant predecessors have done, a great many Hispanics are quite content to be “white” if left to their own devices. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/97 "2003-09-27T03:50:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Godfrey Daniels \* > \*\*Because it’s unnecessary. The Iraqi’s Club said so. \*\* The Iraqis have been denying the existence of any Iraqi “Club” for years. Their last Club program was shut down at the end of the Gulf War… ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/98 "2003-09-27T13:55:09Z")
Just to further complicate things, people tend to have very confusing ancestries in the United States already. This is why the self-reporting of race as a significant statistic is soon going to look truly silly, if it doesn’t already. I understand they are finally going to allow write-ins. Just one of my typical American friends: Native-American, Italian, Puerto Rican, etc… C’mon, racial distinctions should be consigned to the dustbin of history. If a “Cracker Club” is what it takes to create a metaphorical mirror, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Paco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a6a055/32.png) [@Paco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paco)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/99 "2003-09-27T17:02:03Z")
> [@](#): > > It always seems odd to me that the same people who claim to not like racism often embrace blatantly racist things. Affirmative action programs, being against a cacausion club but ok with african-american ones. These things are treating people differently based on race. That’s racism, folks. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737/100 "2003-09-27T19:15:09Z")
Yes, because we know that black and white Americans have had the same history and enjoy the same priviledges and culture, and therefore we must treat them both the same way. A question for those who refuse to understand: Why don’t you see American clubs in schools? Is it for anti-patriotic reasons that we don’t see any? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/student-proposes-caucasian-club/202737.md?page=6)