# Students of Virginity: A Rant **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352 "2008-03-31T05:33:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/21 "2008-03-31T12:52:13Z")
Those abstinent people don’t know what they’re missing. Besides the fact that sex is fun, it does make me feel closer to my boyfriend. You can’t get any closer physically, and unless the person that you’re fucking treats you like a cheap whore, there is a major emotional connection as well. It’s made me cry slightly before, and it’s made him speechless a few times, haha. But sexual compatibility is an important part of a relationship - I didn’t know “good sex” until I was with my current boyfriend. I think it could end up being a horrible idea when you’re in a relationship, don’t have sex until you’re married, then find out one of you sucks in bed/ one person is really kinky or freaky and the other isn’t, etc. Sex isn’t everything but it is very important. And I’ve seen research that suggests having sex a few times a week can raise immune functioning, so it’s good for ya beyond just cardio!! Haha. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/22 "2008-03-31T13:06:42Z")
> [@](#): > > He spoke of his lust as “this untamed beast.” If this is the guy whose picture appeared in the article, we’re talking more “untamed guinea pig”. 😃 This is the mildly scary part. Some of the Righteous have this contain-within-the-pressure-cooker approach to human passions, to the point when the breakout occurs, you hope no one gets hurt. On a parallel note, there was a column in my college alumni magazine recently by a student who was going on about the joys of abstaining from alcohol. Now, I am a very light drinker who was a virtual non-drinker in college. Still, when I read her piece in the magazine my thought was “My, aren’t we a sanctimonious little twit.” Making a parade out of your virtuousness is a piss-off. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/23 "2008-03-31T13:07:31Z")
> [@OP](#): > > Nice logic, Harvard. Do you seriously not see the distinction between the educational institution and one student club full of wackos? > [@calm kiwi](#): > > But will they ever learn that men are only useful for 4 things; procreation, protection, company and fun. Ah, OK, thanks for telling me. I’ll be sure to go tell my students that someone on the Internet proved my total uselessness beyond basic instinctual needs. They’ll be as surprised as I am, but since you’re an expert on my life, I’ll just have to tell them that they have to believe you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/24 "2008-03-31T13:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=Essay] You stupid fucking self-righteous bint! What the fuck is wrong with you that you believe sex and love are mutually exclusive? Really, honestly, you believe that because my boyfriend pays lip service to my bajingo, it means he only loves me for my labia? I cannot even evaluate how many levels of fucked-up this is. I am forced to yell the same two words over and over again: FALSE DICHOTOMY! FALSE DICHOTOMY! FALSE DICHOTOMY! The options are not sex-or-love. The options are not my-perfect-beautiful-experience-every-woman-should-have or the-miserable-bondage-of-sluttery. Oh don’t mind me, I’m a slave to my hormones! And this is equally offensive to men, who only appreciate women because they’re a handy place to stick a dick (except your boyfriend, who appreciates you only because you won’t let him stick it there). [/QUOTE] I, for one, refuse to let women cook for me before marriage. Otherwise I’d only appreciate them for their culinary skills. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/25 "2008-03-31T14:04:28Z")
So, this rant is based upon the fact that a group at Harvard promotes a type of sexual behavior that you don’t believe in as optimal and criticizes the behavior that you do espouse. You have a different model of sexual behavior that you believe to be optimal, and so you criticize their model because it doesn’t agree with yours. Hypocrite, heal thyself. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/26 "2008-03-31T14:07:44Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] So, this rant is based upon the fact that a group at Harvard promotes a type of sexual behavior that you don’t believe in as optimal and criticizes the behavior that you do espouse. You have a different model of sexual behavior that you believe to be optimal, and so you criticize their model because it doesn’t agree with yours. Hypocrite, heal thyself. [/QUOTE] The OP seems to be against the reasoning of this group not only for the basic idea that abstinence is the best way, but the the BS reasons they use to back up that their choice is the correct one. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/27 "2008-03-31T14:12:43Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] Ah, OK, thanks for telling me. I’ll be sure to go tell my students that someone on the Internet proved my total uselessness beyond basic instinctual needs. They’ll be as surprised as I am, but since you’re an expert on my life, I’ll just have to tell them that they have to believe you. [/QUOTE] While you are there be sure to teach them about how not taking everything seriously is a good thing…especially when dealing with people on the internet. Also remind them that things that hurt frequently contain some truth. Feel free to teach them that when they go online there are some horrid people who speak crap and some crappy people who speak horrid. I’m actually a fairly nice person who was talking out my arse, though the difference between the way male and female sexuality is expressed really pisses me off. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/28 "2008-03-31T14:21:20Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] So, this rant is based upon the fact that a group at Harvard promotes a type of sexual behavior that you don’t believe in as optimal and criticizes the behavior that you do espouse. You have a different model of sexual behavior that you believe to be optimal, and so you criticize their model because it doesn’t agree with yours. Hypocrite, heal thyself. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I hate how gay people are always saying gay sex is the only right way to have sex and can save the world. I’m not falling for that one again! ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/29 "2008-03-31T14:22:52Z")
[QUOTE=myskepticsight] The OP seems to be against the reasoning of this group not only for the basic idea that abstinence is the best way, but the the BS reasons they use to back up that their choice is the correct one. [/QUOTE] IOW she disagrees. I saw nothing BS about their reasoning (I didn’t read the NYT article, just what was presented in the OP). Who the fuck is the OP to say how people should behave sexually(by the same token, who the fuck are the people in that group to tell anyone)? If someone wants to fuck, let 'em fuck. If someone else wants to wait, let 'em wait. Neither choice is inherently any more “right” than the other, but you don’t get to criticize the choices that another person supports and push your own choices without being called a hypocrite, because you’re doing the exact same thing that you’re criticizing. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/30 "2008-03-31T14:26:20Z")
Well, except that she’s at least speaking from an informed position. They’re virgins criticizing sex. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/31 "2008-03-31T14:47:10Z")
Quoted stuff from article linked in OP. This one from True Love Revolution side: > [@](#): > > “We found a huge body of scholarship that suggested conclusions that nobody on our campus was making,” he says. They posted the conclusions on their Web site — the belief that “ ‘safe sex’ is not safe”; that even the most effective methods of birth control can fail; that early sexual activity is strongly associated with all manner of terrible outcomes, from increased risk of depression to greater likelihood of marital infidelity, divorce and maternal poverty. Premarital abstinence, on the other hand, is held up by True Love Revolution as improving health, promoting better relationships and, best of all, enabling “better sex in your future marriage.” It’s one thing to promote safe sex, I’m 110% for more education about condoms and birth control and all that. But another view refutes their claims of the dangers of premarital sex: > [@](#): > > Plenty of critics dispute at least some of these claims. Martha Kempner, a spokeswoman for the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States, which promotes sex education, agrees that True Love Revolution performs a service in providing abstinent students a place to gather for support. “What is disturbing,” she says, “is that this club is using inaccurate information and distorted data to sell that message.” She strongly rejects suggestions that premarital sex leads to poverty, an inability to bond or to increased likelihood of divorce. “There’s no legitimate research that says premarital sex has all of these harmful consequences,” she says. “They’re completely baseless claims.” True Love Revolution again: > [@](#): > > “People just don’t get it,” Fredell said. “Everyone thinks we’re trying to promote this idea of the meek little virgin female.” She said she was doing no such thing. “I care deeply for women’s rights,” she said. Fredell was studying not just religion but also gender politics — and was reading Pope John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body” alongside John Stuart Mill’s “Subjection of Women.” She had awakened to the wage gap, to forced sterilization and female genital mutilation — to the different ways that men have, she said, of controlling women. One of these was sexual. Fredell had seen it often in her own life — men pushing for sex, she said, just to “have something to say in the locker room,” women feeling pressured to have sex in order to maintain a relationship. The more she studied and learned, the more Fredell came to realize that women suffer from having premarital sex, “due to a cultural double standard,” she said, “which devalues women for their sexual pasts and glorifies men for theirs.” Maybe this girl has encountered a bunch of pushy assholes and not a nice guy ever? I’ve had a few boyfriends and they’ve never been jerks about sex stuff. If I wanna have sex, then yeah we will, if I don’t, then we’re not gonna. Simple as that. I’ve never fucked someone I hardly knew either, and never felt pressured to. I’ve known some douchebag guys that are the stereotypical locker room guys - but they are a damn joke and they date equally stupid girls. I’ve got a problem with this group acting like there is tons of empirical research showing that sex = bad. I don’t give a shit if you don’t have sex, but don’t promote crap research to back up a personal choice. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/32 "2008-03-31T14:47:33Z")
[QUOTE=calm kiwi] Well said **Diana G**. But will they ever learn that men are only useful for 4 things; procreation, protection, company and fun. [/QUOTE] You forgot moving heavy shit. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/33 "2008-03-31T14:48:04Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] **Moderator’s Note:** Duplicate threads now merged and living in sin together. [/QUOTE] hehehehe… ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/34 "2008-03-31T14:59:04Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] IOW she disagrees. I saw nothing BS about their reasoning (I didn’t read the NYT article, just what was presented in the OP). Who the fuck is the OP to say how people should behave sexually(by the same token, who the fuck are the people in that group to tell anyone)? If someone wants to fuck, let 'em fuck. If someone else wants to wait, let 'em wait. Neither choice is inherently any more “right” than the other, but you don’t get to criticize the choices that another person supports and push your own choices without being called a hypocrite, because you’re doing the exact same thing that you’re criticizing. [/QUOTE] Read again. This time with the Reading Comprehensinator turned on. If one can’t disagree with somebody’s \*public \*position that is based on false premises and faulty logic, then what is this board good for? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/35 "2008-03-31T15:10:45Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I saw nothing BS about their reasoning [/QUOTE] Well, then, come back after you finish reading the OP, where several elementary fallacies (e.g. the fallacy of the excluded middle, aka “false dichotomy”) are pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/36 "2008-03-31T15:12:12Z")
[QUOTE=Mighty\_Girl] Read again. This time with the Reading Comprehensinator turned on. If one can’t disagree with somebody’s \*public \*position that is based on false premises and faulty logic, then what is this board good for? [/QUOTE] Hamster exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/37 "2008-03-31T15:12:38Z")
Sluts, all of you! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/38 "2008-03-31T15:35:31Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] $5 says she’ll have her second abortion sometime next year. [/QUOTE] $10 says she’ll shave her head and join a wymyn’s collective. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/39 "2008-03-31T15:39:00Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] So, this rant is based upon the fact that a group at Harvard promotes a type of sexual behavior that you don’t believe in as optimal and criticizes the behavior that you do espouse. You have a different model of sexual behavior that you believe to be optimal, and so you criticize their model because it doesn’t agree with yours. Hypocrite, heal thyself. [/QUOTE] Actually, I think there is a difference. The person being pitted has a type of sexual behaviour that they believe applies or should apply to everyone, and that they follow themselves. The OP OTOH certainly has a type of sexual behaviour that they follow, but I don’t see them claiming all people should do as she does, only that to apply the woman’s standard to _all_ people is silly. And both think the other is wrong. IOW, the OP isn’t claiming her model as optimal - as she points out in the second paragraph, if someone decides to be abstinent, that’s fine if it’s the right decision for them - only that the pitted woman’s views are not universal. Add to that that the pitted woman is criticising other people’s behaviour; the OP is criticising that argument, not the behaviour, and I think there are significant enough differences. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352/40 "2008-03-31T15:45:29Z")
That… was… _beautiful_. Eloquent, scathing, and oh so smart. I \*totally \*want to engage in respectful and yet premarital sex with you. Welcome to the 'Dope! And yeah, the lady (young Miss Fredell) doth protest too much. She’s an outing waiting to happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/students-of-virginity-a-rant/443352.md?page=3)