# Studio 60 - 10/23 (The Wrap Party) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611 "2006-10-23T20:13:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/141 "2006-11-02T16:03:31Z")
[QUOTE=Fiver] When I was doing open-mike stand-up, the amateurs always went on before the professionals. It’s just like with live music; the garage band plays before the guys touring their hit single. But I have never heard of a comedy club that has an open mike night on a **Friday** , and I’d bet dollars to doughnuts the Improv isn’t an exception. [/QUOTE] Hmm, my experience is only as an audience member, and largely in NYC, where things might be different, but the nobodies got a few minutes on stage at 2:00 a.m. - on weekday, usually - when there would only be about four people in the audience who _weren’t_ friends of the comic in the audience. Yes, the reason I was there at 2 am on weekdays was because I had several friends who were trying to break in, and they needed to be able to show the manager they could bring people in. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/142 "2006-11-02T16:25:02Z")
[QUOTE=OneMoreThing] -A writer knows the whole history of the building -His parents don’t know about Abbott and Costelo -The writer somehow comes up with a record in the middle of the night [/QUOTE] Not to pick nits, but Tom isn’t a writer on the show. He’s one of the stars of it, a memeber of _Studio 60_’s Big Three (alaong with harriet and Simon). I don’t have too much of a problem with him knowing the history of the building - someone that came from his background (as shown by the highly charicaturized fparents, just to make sure the point didn’t get lost) would have to be passionate about his craft to become successful, and would therefore soak up stuff like the history of the building easily. Hey, I gave 30 Rock another chance last night, and saw Tina Fey and some other guy do a rip on the pedeconference. They were walking and talking, and ended up going around in circles. Tina ended it by saying, “Nice walk-and-talkk.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/143 "2006-11-02T16:33:37Z")
People disagree of course, and it’s fine by me if your conclusion about the show is different from mine, but this kind of thing bugs me … [QUOTE=Gadarene] Once again, however, I can point to any number of other shows on television that are equally as sloppily or inartfully written, if not more so. [/quote] So, I can’t criticize any particular show until I’ve equally criticized every comparable show? Or my standard for what is good writing must be based on the average writing of shows currently on the air. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/144 "2006-11-02T16:39:13Z")
All right, fair enough, let me amend that: in my opinion, 95 percent of the network shows out there are more sloppily or inartfully written than Studio 60. I am thus bemused when people go after Studio 60, because it seems that there are so damn many more worthy targets. My chief criticism about Studio 60 is that it doesn’t seem to be _going_ anywhere – I don’t have any sense of progression or direction, let alone urgency. It is, so far and in my estimation, just a bunch of interesting hour-long tales strung together. But my God: there are far worse sins in the television world, even—especially—among network dramas. I’ll ask you the same question I asked above, by the way: what current shows do you consider to be well-written? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/145 "2006-11-02T17:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll ask you the same question I asked above, by the way: what current shows do you consider to be well-written? I’m still uncomfortable with what seems to be the premise here. I choose to watch _Studio 60_ and I choose to air my criticisms of it. > [@](#): > > I am thus bemused when people go after Studio 60, because it seems that there are so damn many more worthy targets. I would say there are so damn many shows that are not even worthy of the bother of critiquing them. I’m not going to back off on my critique of David Mamet’s hack-handed writing in _Oleanna_ just because someone points out that Adam Sandler movies exist. I choose to watch a Mamet movie and thus I choose to apply my standards to it. That’s what artistic critcism is all about. So, Adam Sandler doesn’t even make an attempt to meet those standards; that doesn’t let Mamet off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/146 "2006-11-02T17:22:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m still uncomfortable with what seems to be the premise here. I choose to watch Studio 60 and I choose to air my criticisms of it. Fine. > [@](#): > > I would say there are so damn many shows that are not even worthy of the bother of critiquing them. I’m not going to back off on my critique of David Mamet’s hack-handed writing in Oleanna just because someone points out that Adam Sandler movies exist. I choose to watch a Mamet movie and thus I choose to apply my standards to it. That’s what artistic critcism is all about. So, Adam Sandler doesn’t even make an attempt to meet those standards; that doesn’t let Mamet off the hook. Fine. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/147 "2006-11-02T17:36:57Z")
[QUOTE=SuaSponte] Hmm, my experience is only as an audience member, and largely in NYC, where things might be different, but the nobodies got a few minutes on stage at 2:00 a.m. - on weekday, usually [/quote] Very early or very late, yes. That makes perfect sense. And not on a Friday. And another thing about the parents ignorant of Abbott & Costello: They would not only have to have been innocent of television AND movies since the 1950s, but they can’t have been to any baseball games since that time either. I can’t remember a major league baseball game I’ve been to in my life where at least a snippet of “Who’s On First” wasn’t played either on the Jumbotron or over the PA. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/148 "2006-11-02T17:38:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I can’t remember a major league baseball game I’ve been to in my life where at least a snippet of “Who’s On First” wasn’t played either on the Jumbotron or over the PA. This has never happened at any of the two dozen baseball games I’ve ever been to. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/149 "2006-11-02T19:53:22Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] This has never happened at any of the two dozen baseball games I’ve ever been to. [/QUOTE] _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/150 "2006-11-02T19:59:35Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] This has never happened at any of the two dozen baseball games I’ve ever been to. [/QUOTE] Same here, and I’ve been to MLB, minor league and college games. Heck, the single-A team here uses the RBI Baseball theme when introducing opposing hitters, and they’ve never played it when I’ve been there. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/151 "2006-11-02T20:23:51Z")
> [@](#): > > _shrug_ Shrug all you like, but unless (1) the number of baseball games you can remember attending in your life is less than three, (2) they’ve all been at the same ballpark, or (3) they happened decades ago, I call bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/152 "2006-11-02T23:30:56Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] Once again, however, I can point to any number of other shows on television that are equally as sloppily or inartfully written, if not more so. _Lost_, for example, is absolutely laughable in its attempts at characterization, cohesion, and plot advancement. And, unlike you, I _did_ buy that Tom’s parent’s weren’t simply “ignorant stereotypes”—unlike you, I found it plausible that there were other things going on there. As I feel the need to continue to point out, it wasn’t perfect by a long shot, and the scenes between Tom and his folks (as with many of the scenes in S60 and elsewhere) certainly could have been served by several more rewrites (particularly to make them tighter and more dynamic without so many chunks of exposition about the theater). But it doesn’t merit this kind of scorn and calumny. In my opinion. [/QUOTE] I think my posts on the show carry some weight about my analyzing Studio 60 against other shows on the air, and against what Sorkin is capable of and of what good writing is capable of. Let that stand in the background when I say I think you’re wrong about the scenes with Tom’s parents. They do indeed merit scorn and calumny. They failed in every way to do the job they were supposed to do and needed to do. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611/153 "2006-11-02T23:32:57Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Let that stand in the background when I say I think you’re wrong about the scenes with Tom’s parents. They do indeed merit scorn and calumny. They failed in every way to do the job they were supposed to do and needed to do. [/QUOTE] How about a compromise – scorn OR calumny? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/studio-60-10-23-the-wrap-party/377611.md?page=7)