# Study: Climate change not caused by increasing output from the Sun **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-climate-change-not-caused-by-increasing-output-from-the-sun/411418 "2007-07-11T20:52:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-climate-change-not-caused-by-increasing-output-from-the-sun/411418/41 "2007-07-17T07:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Somehow I’ve got this idea that atmospheric CO[sub]2[/sub] level data from ice cores extends back a long time into the past. [/quote] Somehow I’ve got the idea that this is just one piece of data. Totally uncorrellated against other, different pieces, of data. Somehow I’ve got the idea that things like accurate sunlight levels, temperatures, and more are rather missing. Quick: what was the mean summer temperature in South Africa in AD 1000? How much rainfall was there in Europe in AD 1420? > [@](#): > > And I’ve also got the idea that the acceleration of the temperature rise begain after the industrial revolution which increased the CO[sub]2[/sub] output tremedously. Somehow I’ve got the idea that we were coincidentally (?) coming out of the Little Ice Age. Somehow I get the impression that this is all very much guesswork. That doesn’t make it wrong, but it makes me very skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-climate-change-not-caused-by-increasing-output-from-the-sun/411418/42 "2007-07-17T07:58:34Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] It is worth nothing that current levels of CO2 concentration is still extremely lower than at other points in the Earth’s history, periods of time in which there was life all over the Earth that got along just fine \< snip \> I’m talking about periods around 400 million years ago. [/QUOTE] And in ancient times the Sun was cooler; it’s been slowly warming since it ignited. And as pointed out, there weren’t cities and nations in low lying areas or a human civilization dependent on a stable climate for agriculture back then. So, the levels of CO2 in ancient times don’t matter much. They won’t have the same effect now as then, and we weren’t there back then anyway. And the problem isn’t just the world being warmer, but the process of changing to one climate to another. There’s no magic “switch to hot climate mode” switch for civilization; changing will require money, sacrifice, and time; and will result in hardship, suffering and death. We can expect famines and mass migrations of refugees, at the least. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-climate-change-not-caused-by-increasing-output-from-the-sun/411418/43 "2007-07-17T13:48:21Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Somehow I’ve got the idea that this is just one piece of data. Totally uncorrellated against other, different pieces, of data. Somehow I’ve got the idea that things like accurate sunlight levels, temperatures, and more are rather missing. Quick: what was the mean summer temperature in South Africa in AD 1000? How much rainfall was there in Europe in AD 1420? [/quote] Shrewd. I can’t give you the mean temperature in South Africa in AD 1000, _ergo_ anthropic global warming is just guesswork. I feel so relieved. > [@](#): > > Somehow I’ve got the idea that we were coincidentally (?) coming out of the Little Ice Age. Should we tell all those climate specialists that they forgot about this or let them fumble around for a while? > [@](#): > > Somehow I get the impression that this is all very much guesswork. That doesn’t make it wrong, but it makes me very skeptical. Unrestrained skepticism is good. Hang in there. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-climate-change-not-caused-by-increasing-output-from-the-sun/411418/44 "2007-07-17T14:14:52Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Yes. Lack of data. Not absence of data. Lack of data. Truly accurate data is limited to only very recent times. I don’t know if that’s sufficient, but it makes me extremely suspicious. [/QUOTE] …and there it is. We can’t act without sufficient data. I’ll let you know what “sufficient” is, but it’s not at that point yet. I sure hope no alternate theory comes along and forces the meaning of “sufficient” to be increased. That would be so unfortunate. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-climate-change-not-caused-by-increasing-output-from-the-sun/411418/45 "2007-07-17T15:23:14Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] …and there it is. We can’t act without sufficient data. I’ll let you know what “sufficient” is, but it’s not at that point yet. I sure hope no alternate theory comes along and forces the meaning of “sufficient” to be increased. That would be so unfortunate. -Joe [/QUOTE] Yes. This delaying tactic is used all the time. We just need a few more months of study as to find out whether or not the Iraq “surge” is working … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-climate-change-not-caused-by-increasing-output-from-the-sun/411418.md?page=2)