# Study says incidence of same sex attraction significantly underestimated by current survey methods **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 28, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600 "2017-05-28T16:29:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/1 "2017-05-28T16:29:48Z")
Interesting survey here - (link to abstract below). Current modern estimates of the incidence of homosexuality based on studies usually converge around around 4-7% for men and bit more for women. This study below says that if you correct for potential bias in the survey methodology you get around 60-70% uptick in the rates of people who have same sex attraction. I’m kind of onboard with this revised estimate just based on my gut sense of the spirit of the age I do have to say there seems to be more “gayness” that pervades the zeitgeist than could be accounted for by only one out of every 20 people. Interestingly it also says these revised methods reveal a lot more pervasive and intense anti-gay sentiment that most studies reveal. [The Size of the LGBT Population and the Magnitude of Anti-Gay Sentiment are Substantially Underestimated](http://www.nber.org/papers/w19508) [PDF link to survey itself](http://www.nber.org/papers/w19508.pdf) > [@](#): > > Measuring sexual orientation, behavior, and related opinions is difficult because responses are biased towards socially acceptable answers. We test whether measurements are biased even when responses are private and anonymous and use our results to identify sexuality-related norms and how they vary > [@](#): > > The veiled method increased self-reports of non-heterosexual identity by 65% (p\<0.05) and same-sex sexual experiences by 59% (p\<0.01). The veiled method also increased the rates of anti-gay sentiment. Respondents were 67% more likely to express disapproval of an openly gay manager at work (p\<0.01) and 71% more likely to say it is okay to discriminate against lesbian, gay, or bisexual individuals (p\<0.01). The results show non-heterosexuality and anti-gay sentiment are substantially underestimated in existing surveys, and the privacy afforded by current best practices is not always sufficient to eliminate bias. Finally, our results identify two social norms: it is perceived as socially undesirable both to be open about being gay, and to be unaccepting of gay individuals… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/2 "2017-05-28T18:50:49Z")
I read the abstract. It seemed to be claiming, in effect, that they have developed an algorithm to read people’s minds (in the aggregate, they emphasized, not individuals). How do they verify if they are correcting for bias in society accurately or not? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/3 "2017-05-28T20:44:34Z")
From the paper - > [@](#): > > We recruited participants from an online labor market, Amazon’s Mechanical Turk (MTurk). Hmmm… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/4 "2017-05-28T21:26:32Z")
> [@](#): > > We recruited participants from an online labor market, Amazon’s Mechanical Turk (MTurk). Previous studies have shown that this subject population is culturally and demographically diverse (Paolacci, Chandler, and Iperiotis 2010) and displays similar behavior in experiments to standard samples (Rand 2011; Horton, Rand, and Zeckhauser 2010) Where does the “Hmmm” come from? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/5 "2017-05-28T22:08:34Z")
Estimates seem to vary from 03% to 30%, probably depending in both directions according to the interviewee’s bias ( some gay activists may want to downplay the number from caution, others to flaunt it as being the New Normal; conversely an anti-gay might want to pretend it’s minuscule whilst a brimstone preacher wants to proclaim the New Sodom ) — at the risk of playing it safe and splitting it down the middle, I think it safest to assume for the USA _only_, it is just above 15-17%. Since nothing is the same all over the world, rates are no doubt lower elsewhere, and in a few places higher. > [@](#): > > We recruited participants from an online labor market, Amazon’s Mechanical Turk (MTurk). Previous studies have shown that this subject population is culturally and demographically diverse (Paolacci, **Chandler** , and Iperiotis 2010) and displays similar behavior in experiments to standard samples (Rand 2011; Horton, Rand, and Zeckhauser 2010) Ah, the renowned statistical work of Miss Chanandler Bong. I remember it well. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/6 "2017-05-29T23:12:13Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Where does the “Hmmm” come from? It’s a voiced labial consonant, powered by the vocal folds, produced by the closed lips and using the nose for a resonating chamber, preceded by an (optionally glottalized) pulmonar aspiration. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/7 "2017-05-30T00:24:10Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I read the abstract. It seemed to be claiming, in effect, that they have developed an algorithm to read people’s minds (in the aggregate, they emphasized, not individuals). How do they verify if they are correcting for bias in society accurately or not? It’s claiming that by it is trying via a “veiled elicitation” methodology of how the questions are asked to reduce the pressure (in whatever form) of be socially conforming or acceptable and thereby get more honest answers. The result is you get substantially more gay inclined g results but when the social expectations leash is off you also get more anti-gay attitudes coming out . Slate article explaining it [How Do Americans Really Feel About Gays?](http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2013/10/11/anti_gay_feelings_new_studies_find_people_aren_t_as_gay_friendly_as_they.html) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/8 "2017-05-30T00:36:36Z")
So, Kurt Cobain was right. 🙂 (If I’m hearing “All Apologies” correctly.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/9 "2017-05-30T00:39:53Z")
I think you are, Brain, but how would he know what the ashes of his enemies tastes like? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/10 "2017-05-30T02:02:37Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > It’s a voiced labial consonant, powered by the vocal folds, produced by the closed lips and using the nose for a resonating chamber, preceded by an (optionally glottalized) pulmonar aspiration. “…but that’s not important right now!” ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/11 "2017-05-30T02:38:42Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > “…but that’s not important right now!” " . . . and STOP calling me Shirley!!" 😛 ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/12 "2017-05-30T17:11:42Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Estimates seem to vary from 03% to 30%, probably depending in both directions according to the interviewee’s bias ( some gay activists may want to downplay the number from caution, others to flaunt it as being the New Normal; conversely an anti-gay might want to pretend it’s minuscule whilst a brimstone preacher wants to proclaim the New Sodom ) — at the risk of playing it safe and splitting it down the middle, I think it safest to assume for the USA _only_, it is just above 15-17%. > > Since nothing is the same all over the world, rates are no doubt lower elsewhere, and in a few places higher. > > Ah, the renowned statistical work of Miss Chanandler Bong. I remember it well. The best current estimates are in the 4-6% range. If this methodology were totally accurate that would up the percentages to 6.5-10%. However, if you read the study the sample studied was non-representative of the country in general. It was much less religious, younger, and more female than the country as a whole. So even if the methods are valid, the estimates are probably way off. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/13 "2017-05-30T17:34:39Z")
I have several studies that show the number of women who have had a single or very short lesbian sexual experience, but are not lesbian, is incredibly large - IIRC, on the order of almost 1 in 4 for those under age 30. Whereas “permanent” lesbians are still only about 1-3% of the general population of women. I confess that I experience the drunk “woo! girl” effect personally nearly every night that I go to certain bars, where some straight girl decides she wants to “give it a try.” Much, MUCH less so with straight men. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/14 "2017-05-30T18:39:02Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I have several studies that show the number of women who have had a single or very short lesbian sexual experience, but are not lesbian, is incredibly large - IIRC, on the order of almost 1 in 4 for those under age 30. Whereas “permanent” lesbians are still only about 1-3% of the general population of women. I confess that I experience the drunk “woo! girl” effect personally nearly every night that I go to certain bars, where some straight girl decides she wants to “give it a try.” Much, MUCH less so with straight men. I blame the high incidence of experimentation phase among females on porn. Based upon porn, pretty much all women are bi. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-says-incidence-of-same-sex-attraction-significantly-underestimated-by-current-survey-methods/787600/15 "2017-05-30T19:18:39Z")
The article isn’t quite as bad as I was thinking. They’re not simply saying _“Only seven percent of people who were surveyed say they’re gay. We think it should be ten percent. So a bias against saying you’re gay must exist.”_ Instead their inference that a bias exists has some evidence to back it up. They notice that there’s a significant difference in the responses depending on whether the survey was anonymous or not. Their suggestion is that there are people who are openly gay and people who are secretly gay. Public surveys only record the first group while anonymous surveys record both groups. I can see their point. But I think it raises the bigger question of the definition of homosexuality (which previous threads have discussed). How do you define somebody as being gay? Is a person gay if they exclusively have sex with members of their own gender? Is a person gay is they generally have sex with members of their own gender but occasionally have sex with a member of the opposite gender? Is a person gay if they generally have sex with members of the opposite gender but occasionally have sex with a member of their own gender? Is a person gay if they’re in a monogamous relationship with a person of the opposite gender but wish they were in a relationship with a member of their own gender? Is a person gay if they’ve never had sex with another person but wish they were in a relationship with a member of their own gender? Does it matter if they’ve chosen not to have certain relationships, felt forced into not having certain relationships by social pressure, or simply never had the opportunity to have certain relationships? To get back to the specific topic, if a person won’t admit on a survey question that they’re gay, isn’t it likely that they also won’t have a same-sex encounter? And do people who’ve chosen to never have a same-sex encounter still count as being gay just because they sometimes think about it?