# Study shows mathematically challenged to be biased against atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-shows-mathematically-challenged-to-be-biased-against-atheists/793056 "2017-08-08T03:29:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-shows-mathematically-challenged-to-be-biased-against-atheists/793056/21 "2017-08-09T12:23:50Z")
I have no idea if they still use this term in linguistics, but back when I was in the field, this would have been called a matter of Gricean conversational implicature: > **[Paul Grice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Grice)** > > Herbert Paul Grice (13 March 1913 – 28 August 1988), usually publishing under the name H. P. Grice, H. Paul Grice, or Paul Grice, was a British philosopher of language. He is best known for his theory of implicature and the cooperative principle (with its namesake Gricean maxims), which became foundational concepts in the linguistic field of pragmatics. His work on meaning has also influenced the philosophical study of semantics. > Born and raised in Harborne (now a suburb of Birmingham), in th... > **[Cooperative principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_principle)** > > In social science generally and linguistics specifically, the cooperative principle describes how people achieve effective conversational communication in common social situations—that is, how listeners and speakers act cooperatively and mutually accept one another to be understood in a particular way. > > The philosopher of language Paul Grice introduced the concept in his pragmatic theory, argued such:.mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 40px}.mw-parser-output .... The problem is whether the people answering the survey are taking the questions as literally as possible or making as many assumptions as possible or somewhere in between. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-shows-mathematically-challenged-to-be-biased-against-atheists/793056/22 "2017-08-09T12:47:10Z")
If I introduced you to someone, and said “This is Peter. He’s a teacher.”. Would you say “No, you’re wrong! He’s a teacher _and_ an atheist!”? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-shows-mathematically-challenged-to-be-biased-against-atheists/793056/23 "2017-08-09T13:00:36Z")
Whaaaaat? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-shows-mathematically-challenged-to-be-biased-against-atheists/793056/24 "2017-08-09T13:02:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t agree that it’s a math issue. It’s a matter of how to interpret the question. > > I think most people, when seeing an open-ended A and a more detailed B, assume that A means that the detail in B is not true. Meaning if A is “… is a teacher” and B is “… is a teacher and an atheist”, they assume that A means “… is a teacher and not an atheist”. > > It’s not like all survey questions are phrased flawlessly. My own experience with surveys is that I frequently find myself wondering if I should answer the question as literally phrased or based on what I think they probably really mean. So I think that many people are assuming that the question in this case really meant “… and not an atheist” and are responding accordingly. > > I would guess if the question made clear that A meant “… is a teacher, whether an atheist or not” that very few people would make this mistake. I’m not familiar with this specific study, and I’m going off my memory of a video I watched couple years ago about a similar survey, but IIRC they account for this by asking more than one question. For instance, if we assume that everyone knows that atheists are a minority of Americans, and everyone also knows that Browns fans are a minority of Americans, then these two questions should get similar responses: Is it more likely that the serial killer is A) A teacher, or B) a teacher and a Browns fan? Is it more likely that the serial killer is A) A teacher, or B) a teacher and an atheist? People instinctively understand the first question – the answer is A, because even with your interpretation, there are more teachers who are not Browns fans than teachers who are. But that instinct falls apart for the second question, which is where the bias is revealed. How many more people get the 2nd question wrong than the first is where the meat of the study is. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-shows-mathematically-challenged-to-be-biased-against-atheists/793056/25 "2017-08-09T15:11:04Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I’m not familiar with this specific study, and I’m going off my memory of a video I watched couple years ago about a similar survey, but IIRC they account for this by asking more than one question. For instance, if we assume that everyone knows that atheists are a minority of Americans, and everyone also knows that Browns fans are a minority of Americans, then these two questions should get similar responses: > > Is it more likely that the serial killer is A) A teacher, or B) a teacher and a Browns fan? > > Is it more likely that the serial killer is A) A teacher, or B) a teacher and an atheist? > > People instinctively understand the first question – the answer is A, because even with your interpretation, there are more teachers who are not Browns fans than teachers who are. But that instinct falls apart for the second question, which is where the bias is revealed. How many more people get the 2nd question wrong than the first is where the meat of the study is. You’ve not met browns fans, have you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/study-shows-mathematically-challenged-to-be-biased-against-atheists/793056.md?page=1)