That’s not uncommon. SWMBO did her junior year of college in Germany and was mistaken for being Dutch constantly. Apparently, a native English speaker who becomes fluent in German retains just enough of an accent to sound like someone from Holland.
I found just the opposite to be true, at least in my experience.
When I first went to Germany, I lived in Munich for three months. I met lots of really nice people - oddly though, not a single German. I met New Zealanders, Australians, other Americans, a few Greeks - all living in Munich. At least back then, Munich was somewhat anti-foreigner, plus Munich had the reputation of being more stand-offish in terms of prestige; where you lived, what kind of car you drove, your clothes and how much money you had - those seemed important.
However, when I went to Berlin to visit it was a whole different world. I met only Germans and sometimes would hang out with them for weeks/months before the subject of profession or possessions or where you lived even came up in conversation. Yes, Berliners are the “New Yorkers” of Germany, but in that same sense, they didn’t care about the trappings of prestige. There is indeed the “Berliner Schnauze” - an “attitude” that dug right into the heart of things. It basically means they don’t take bullshit and expect you to be open and upfront. You don’t like something? Say so. No sugar coating. This is somewhat atypical of Germans, in that most don’t like confrontation and would rather smile and ignore discussing things they don’t like - but not Berliners; they tell you in no uncertain terms what they think. I found their blunt honesty refreshing and far easier to deal with as an American.
And as far as being too touristy - well, every city in Germany has their fair share. Trick is to stay away from those touristy areas. I lived in NYC and rarely went to Times Square or Statue of Liberty or any of the tourist areas. Same in Berlin - avoid the big tourist areas and you will seldom, if ever, run into any tourists. Berlin is huge - back then, even with the Wall up, West Berlin alone was as large as all of NYC - including the boroughs of Queens, Brooklyn, Yonkers, etc.! Now with the Wall just a historical footnote, you have more than twice the space with all kinds of cool, hip, (inexpensive) neighborhoods where nary a tourist will venture or find. Remember, lots and lots of young Germans from other cities, towns and villages move to Berlin. It is a thriving city of students, artists, musicians, writers and - dare I say - foreigners who happily make Berlin their home. Just go to any of those areas, find a cafe, read a paper and watch - I think you will be impressed.
Of course, it is your choice - but I wouldn’t dash away from Berlin too soon. Give it a chance
Well I’ve sent out a dozen or so e-mails, including a few from Berlin. I’ll keep you guys posted and let you know what happens. Can’t believe that I’ll be there in a week.
No personal experience with this like Kyla’s, but I have heard the same thing from many folks who have studied languages through immersion – small children have a natural way of breaking through the self-conciousness barriers.
I’m probably biased, but if you like mountains, I would recommend Munich. It’s very close to the Mountains, but still has all the amenities and cultural diversity of a big city. If you live out in the suburbs, you will get contact with real natives, and unlike Berlin, Munich is the Million-Village (Millionendorf), that is, despite being a million-people-city, the Quarters (Stadtviertel) feel like a village.
I don’t know how old you are, but have you looked into an Au-pair-Program yet? Basically, you stay at a family doing small housework and help with the children and get a paid language course, food and bed, and a small pocket money. There is an age limit, though.
You could also try a practical term for an enviromental or charity organisation, if you are interested in that. They can offer you watching birds at the Northsea or building homes or similar (Bauorden): you meet volunteers from other countries and learn something, and have a support network.
I, too, agree that immersion in the culture works best and quickest. You can get a start before you come over by looking for a tandem partner on the net (a German wants to learn American, you both have webcams; for half an hour you talk English with each other, the next half hour, you both talk German).
Sorry, I live in a one-room apt., so I can’t offer you a bed.
Munich is more expensive than the countryside, but also has lots to offer. In the summer, it will be full of tourists, though, so if you run around the typical sights, you will hear a lot of English being spoken. Go to the beergardens or the Isar river and talk with the natives instead. 
(Also more fun and relaxing in the summer, as long as you don’t get piss-drunk.)
As for accents: from my perspective, we speak perfectly norman High (Standard) German. I differentiate between accents - the speech melody and rhthym, where you can tell which area people are from - and dialects: Bavarian, Swabian, Berlin, Platt. Those are close to being languages in their own right, with not only different words, but also grammar.
People in Munich will talk the Munich variant of the Bavarian dialect, but a lot of people are Zugroaste (people who moved to Munich from elsewhere and stayed) and will therefore speak High German with no dialect.
You can listen to the Bavarian Radio and TV online (for example, Rundschau is the daily news show) and see how much you can understand. Then compare it to the Swabians - I think they have the worst dialect even for native Germans. (Their ad campaign for their state of Baden-Württemberg is “We can [do] everything but [speak] High German - Wir können alles ausser Hochdeutsch”).
If you go to the page of the ARD, they have links to all the regional TV stations, so you can compare the Tagesschau (Standard German accent) with the regional news.
As for your own dialect/ accent - I personally wouldn’t worry about it. Try speaking and understanding first. If you still have a heavy accent after staying and speaking for some time (it depends on how much contact you have, because most people subconsciouly start imitating the dialect of the people around them, so the more you hang around Germans, the more you will pick up correct pronounciation), what your original dialect is - that colours how you pronounce the german words, and what kind of ear for music you have - how good you are at hearing the different accents in foreign words).
If you are still bothered one year later, and are speaking fluently, then it’s time to get a special tutor. You will probably get much more grief if you keep confusing Der, Die, Das - that’s what native speakers notice first.
Don’t expect to be praised for speaking the language, though, (The way most english-speaking people praise foreigners who can stutter out five words). Germans are very picky about speaking their language correctly. When Trappatoni, the Italian soccer coach, at a press conference used mangled German, (spielen wie Flasche leer - he plays like bottle empty, und: was erlauben struntz? What struntz dare do?, it immediately become a joking reference. Trappatoni then got upset at people laughing over his imperfect command of a foreign language, saying that this wouldn’t happen elsewhere, but seems to have calmed down, because some time later he was doing joghurt commercials using his broken language.)
You moved among the wrong crowd, I think. Munich does have the reputation of being the Single-city, that is, lots of people in bars. And it has a Yuppie scene, too - lots of actors and wannabee important people. But outside the Bussi-groups, if you don’t try to get into the P1 (The most prestigous disco for that crowd), you can meet natives, too, who generally don’t care what car you drive.
The subject of money is important because Munich is expensive.
What is true is that munich natives are very reserved. Don’t confuse this with standoffishness, though, or being anti-foreigners (people have prejudices against Turks and Southerns), because a lot of Germans who come from other regions comment on how hard it is to make friends or get to know people in Munich. It’s just the silent way, probably a combination of the Bavarian Maulfaulheit (they don’t bother opening their mouth) with the anonimity of a big city.
That’s an interesting characterization, because I don’t recognize being polite and non-confrontational as typical for non-Berlin Germans at all! But then, the Bavarians themselves have the stereotype of being blunt and not polite, too.
Seconded. Stay away from the typical. Instead, pick up the local free weekly paper and look at what summer partys are happening now in your neighborhood - churches and quarters and sport clubs will be having a Sommerfest every weekend now, or a Grillabend (BBQ), or … just go outside and enjoy the summer, the Germans are doing that, too.
In this thread, there are some hints about what topics should not be discussed bluntly with strangers in Germany: generally, what’s perceived as intrusive, police-style questioning about job and money. Religion is a very, very, very private thing. Politics can lead into heated discussion.
German universities don’t have that prestige system of the US, but going to a Uni, or having an Abitur, is more prestigious than having only finished Hauptschule, and people who did the latter often have a chip on their shoulder against the former. Though you will probably meet lots of university students in Munich - the LMU has 45 000, plus the TU and the FH.
Thought of some further tips for Munich (if you come down here)
- If your visum allows some work, like training, you could look at the Bavarian Red Cross (Bayerisches Rotes Kreuz), who run a Summer Day Camp outside Munich, and are looking for young adults to watch over the children (so they don’t kill each other or set the place on fire, and to play with them). Teaching experience not usually required, but often done by people who want to go into teaching, because it counts as practical part. You get a little payment, but can interact with the children and the other adults.
The City Youth office (Stadtjugendamt) offers Day Trips during the summer holidays (July + August), but I don’t know their requirements.
Then there is the Pädagogische Aktion, where volunteers do activities with children, and the MuseumsPädagogisches Zentrum, where they make museums interesting for children.
General Behaviour tips for Munich and Germany:
**-No smiles. **
That is, don’t expect people to smile at you, and don’t smile at strangers, unless you want to flirt with them. If you smile at a stranger in the subway, people won’t think that you are simply polite, they will think you want sth. from them, are flirting, are trying to charm/ con them etc.
People in shops or on the street will be polite and ready to help, but don’t value smiling over competence.
The default mood of a native Bavarian or Munich looks surly, taciturn, grouchy to the outsider, but they only want to be left in peace (Meine Ruhe will ich haben). It doesn’t mean they are angry or will start fighting if you talk to them.
Also, don’t expect people to help you unless you ask. Just because you are standing there with a map in your hands doesn’t mean you need help - obviously, you are independent and coping yourself. (9 times out of 10, when I ask people on the street with a map “Do you need help?”, they say “no thanks, we found it already”.)
**- No gushing compliments. **
You don’t have to tell us that the country is beautiful. We already know that the scenery is nice - that’s why thousands of tourists are coming here every year - and we know what’s wrong with the country. So dropping a bunch of compliments won’t win natives over, instead, they will either think you’re an ignorant, naive USian, or trying to charm them for some con or other purpose.
That doesn’t mean you get to criticize what’s wrong in Germany, either. For all the grumbling and complaining Germans like to do about what’s wrong, doesn’t give foreigners a free pass (like in most countrys, too). Expect heavy critiscm of US foreign politics if you stray in that area.
The best is to be simple and honest - praise what you like in low terms. You can mention how the cultural differences broaden your outlook or similar, instead of asserting that if you are used doing things one way, that’s the correct way, and Europeans are dumb for doing it different.
- Don’t expect to make friends quickly, only aquaintances.
This is another cultural distinction - Americans expect and want people to be friends half an hour after meeting them. In Germany, people have very few real true friends, and the rest are aquaintances (Bekanntschaften). It takes a lot of time to move from the latter to the former, time in which you get to know each other.
Unless you are among University students or talking with children, calling people “Sie” instead of “Du” is still the safest option (though English-speakers get cut more slack in this regard than the Turks) for not offending. If somebody offers you the “Du” and firstname, it’s still a big deal. If you offer that people can call you by your firstname + Du, they might feel pressured to respond likewise, even if they don’t feel comfortable getting so personal yet. So try to get cues from the people around you.
Similar may apply to the dating scene - (I don’t date myself, so that’s hearsay) - apparently, many male Yanks look for one-night-stands, while the German girls look for a relationship.
We also don’t expect to be friends with the co-workers simply because we work together. A friendly (german standards) and professional behaviour amongst the workers is expected, of course, but not that everybody tells about their private life or invites 20 people from the office to a private party.
Which leads to
- say what you mean
That is, no phoney phrases for politeness sake. (“How do you do” = wie geht es Ihnen? is an exception). Germans think it’s far more rude to use phrases without meaning them, than to not say them. So don’t tell a German you met two hours ago “well, if you’re in the states, come over to my house”, because they will either take you at face value and show up on your doorstep - an invitation into a house is a big gesture, because only half of the Germans have their own house, and the home is a very private place, so only good friends are invited - or they will know from background that this is polite meaningless chatter, and become angry at it.
Likewise, nobody would dream of inviting the whole office / class to a birthday party, and then let the unpopular people try to figure out if this was meant honestly. You invite your friends, and people you aren’t friends with aren’t invited. They will know already that you aren’t friends.
How to get to know people in Munich:
Go to the Tollwoodfestival- modern music, alternative and artsy stuff sold, organic food, half of Munich is there, so it’s crowded, but still.
Every Monday evening, there’s the Bladenight. You can rent inliners there and roll around with 4 000 to 5 000 people.
Rent a bike and take a tour from the ADFC (German bike club) or other organisations. There are also guided tours on bike.
Learn the basic rules of soccer and stroll around the English Garden or other parks looking for a game in progress and ask if you can join. (This is of course easier for guys). You can also see Volleyball in the parks, and Basketball at courts (Pinakotheken, for example). The new fad is slacklining, which are in some corners of the English Garden.
If you want to go into the mountains, near the Hauptbahnhof (Main statioin) is the DAV (Alpine Club). Go and ask them for tips, even if you have experience with mountains, because things are done differently here. Double if you don’t have experience - mountain people hate ignorants who walk around mountains in High heels and sandals, and then have to be rescued by the Bergwacht.
The Alpine Club also offers tours with guides, so you can meet people.
On the weekends, there’s also hiking in the plains, look at Dvv-wandern.de (This weekend, it’s the German-American Wander Club in Munich, at the Mangfallplatz).
On the second Wednesday of the month, the Bookcrossinggroup Munich meets at the Baal. Look at the forums before, in case they change the venue. It’s called MUC- Meetup. It’s a group of people talking about books and everything else.
Go to the Isar, to a beergarden or into one of the Freibäder (public swimming pools) to have fun and casually chat with people. The Prinzregentenfreibad is famous for guys trying to meet girls.
There’s also public viewing of the soccer world cup on every corner outside. And open air cinema at several pools.
If you do come down here and like to, you can send me a PM and we could meet somewhere for drinks.
constanze - everyone has their own experiences, and hope you don’t take my comments about Munich personally! It really was a great experience, but in my travels back then, I was not the only one who felt it was far easier to meet Berliners than anyone in Munich - partly due, as you mention, that younger people moving to Munich seemed more interested in the trapping of status.
Again - in my case not true at all. Met a nice younger German couple who had a huge apartment in the building where I lived. We became friends after I was invited to a party by a mutual friend, and we remained friend the entire time I lived in Berlin - even after they got divorced. Also met quite a few people right off the bat that I continued to see and meet for drinks even years later.
To a certain extent, true in Berlin as well - although I found far more people jumping to “du” form quickly - especially when they figured out I was American - and they didn’t think it was a big deal. This was true with my 85 year old neighbor lady, as well as the people who worked in the local bakery and bar, etc.
I never had much to do with the heterosexual scene, but knew quite a few straight American guys who never had a problem meeting and sleeping with a woman on the first or second date. If anything, the German women were the ones who were not looking for a relationship!
Very true - and I really, really liked that about Germany! You didn’t have to hear about every bit of drama at home (like you often do in the US).
The only thing that I did find odd about that was people who had worked together for 15, 20 or more years, still calling each other “Mr. Smith” or “Ms. Smith” instead of using first names. When I was teaching ESL to business people who needed to travel on business to the US, I used to tell them this would strike Americans as very odd - and imply that you and your business partner didn’t know each other, or didn’t like each other very much. To that end, I used to make everyone use their first name in English classes - and you could see it was VERY difficult for them to get used to doing that. I thought one secretary was going to die when she had to call her boss, “Klaus”! They got used to it rather quickly though - and I even heard a few of them using first names after these one or two week intensive courses were finished.
At any rate constanze, didn’t mean to bash Munich - I just personally found the Berliner Schnauze more refreshing and easier to deal with as an American - especially an American who had lived in NYC prior to moving there.
No, I didn’t take it personally at all! It’s a common comment on Munich made by other Germans, too.
Even outside the Bussi-society, people in Munich are very reserved. I’ve travelled more often to the Rhine region, and people there will talk your ear off with the slightest provocation. Quite different.
You were lucky then, and I’m glad. But I’m very often surprised at how quickly Americans will call other people friends and then surprised to discover who these people really are or get disappointed by friends, because here it would be unusual to consider people friends if you don’t know them very very well.
I think this is the difference between “good” foreigners- Americans etc. who come as tourists and bring in money, and “bad” foreigners (Ausländer), who are migrant workers from Turkey or people from Africa misusing the political asylum system (“they are taking our jobs!”).
Since most Germans know that English has no distinction between you and thou any longer, there is a bigger tendency to cut slack than for e.g. Turks, where the distinction exists in their own language. Plus if a janitor calls the Boss “Sie” but all colleagues “Du” without being offered it, it’s considered not a lanugage problem, but a lack of respect, so people get angry.
In the “help and advice” section of weekly papers, there’s regularly a letter about the following problem “I have worked together with a female colleague for years, and offered her the “Du”, but now we have had a quarrel / she backstabbed me to the boss, and I want to distance myself from her. Can I go back to “Sie”?” (The questioner is usually female, too). The answer is always “No, you can’t take back a “Du”, so you should be very very careful whom you offer it to.”
I admit that on one hand, it feels a bit strange to work with people for years and call them last names + Sie. But I think it’s only a problem if parts of the team are closer and calling each other Du, and other parts are recent and still using Sie. And of course etiquette means that higher-ranking people offer the Du, elder people to younger, and women to men, so even if you would like to make the relationship more personal, you might not be able to offer the Du.
I once worked for an IT startup, where everybody was young and cool and etiquette was much based on the US, so everybody called each other by first names. Didn’t change a thing when the boss had to lay people off, though, so I don’t see the advantage; actually, I think it’s easier for the boss to stay with the Sie since he does have to give orders and admonitions. For colleagues on the same level, Du is more natural.
There are some branches of US-based companies here in Germany which try to keep the American business culture of open doors and everybody using first names + Du, and most employees say that they don’t like to be forced, they want to decide when closing the door is appropriate because they need to concentrate, and when they feel comfortable using the egalitarian Du across power levels.
No problem, I didn’t perceive it as bashing at all! You were just sharing your experiences. I have no personal knowledge of Berlin, so I can’t compare, but I know that in the yearly lifestyle questionaires about which city is top (out of 10) Munich comes in Nr. 1 in most categories, nr. 2 in some others. And people keep moving here, of course. 
That is actually pretty funny - if I were pissed off at a co-worker, it would be a lot easier to say, “du Arschloch!” (you asshole) after the fact.
Still - if you then started to go back to the “sie” form, I would imagine the co-worker would get the hint and revert to it as well.
The opposite is true in the US - when your boss calls you by your first name, that is normal and good - but when he/she suddenly calls you by your last name - well, chances are it is not good news.
At any rate - glad you didn’t take it as a personal slam. Munich has some great things - Deutsches Museum was one of my favorite places to hang out on rainy days - plus some excellent specialty foods and those beer halls (that are unheard of in Berlin). I lived and worked at the Hotel Atlanta on Sendlinger Tor Platz back then. No idea if it still exists. Great location, walking distance to lots of great bars and restaurants and movie theaters - all in all, quite fun. Later moved up near the mensa and briefly worked at the Intercontinental or Hilton(?) where they used to have the Yellow Submarine bar (an entire bar that was INSIDE of an aquarium). I know that bar no longer exists, but it was quite the attraction back then.
Still - my druthers are Berlin.
As I said in my previous post I sent off about 12 e-mails, and didn’t really get any quick responses. I posted a wanted ad in the Berlin section, and it appears that was the way to go from the beginning. I got three responses in less than 24 hours. One is from Friedrichshain, one is “near the city center”, and one in Treptower Park, near Kreuzberg. The last is an Icelander studying German as well.
There is also a mystery response to one of my ads. As they didn’t specify which ad was theres, I have no idea where it is, but its a 4 person apartment, which I think I would prefer.
I’ll keep you posted. It’s at least comforting to know that the Germans suck as much as Americans in responding to ads. Feels like home already.
Treis - a little late in the game to remember to tell you this, but here is a link to ToyTown - a site similar to SDMB with English speaking people living in Germany.
And as you will be there in practically a matter of hours, you could post your request and meet the people/see the places when you get there. It will be good for you to travel around the city, see the areas, meet the people and get a feel for location, prices and “feel” of the place.
Remember to keep us posted!