Stuff you just do NOT get...

[monstro]

@kawaiitentaclebeast

Yes, desperation has always been the best factor in rational decision making.

1. WHY do you want a car that lasts 10 years? What purpose does that serve? Were you planning on moving to some part of the country where you could not buy any cars for 10 years? If you can live with a 10 year old car 10 years from now why can’t you live with a 10 year old car TODAY? Is there something about old people that makes them crave 10 year old rustbuckets?

scratching my head

Perhaps you can afford to replace a car every two years, but most people can’t. Or maybe they can, but they hate car shopping. Or they like the idea of owning something forever. I’m real rough and tumble with my cars. I like knowing that if I scratch the fender or spill something in the interior, I don’t have to worry about pissing off some dealership when the lease is expires.

2. Who the hell cares about your car payment? You can go to the bank and arrange any kind of financing you want, you have a cost of capital and so does the bank, what does that have to do with anything?

You can arrange any kind of financing you want? No wonder there’s a ton of poor people out there driving luxury automobiles. They must have haggled their loan officer real good. :rolleyes:

Maybe I’m missing something in this conversation, but what makes buying a car any different than buying a major appliance or a computer? If I buy a brand new washer and dryer, I’m going to keep them until either I move or they break down. If a buy a laptop, I plan to keep it for some time, until either I can’t upgrade anymore or the damn thing stops working. Appliances and electronics depreciate in value as well, but it makes sense to hold on to them awhile. Why are cars different?

[hawksgirl]

About cell phones:
I don’t have a landline. Why deal with it? I’m a student, I’m not home at reliable times and I don’t want the hassle of my roommates not taking a message when there was an important one for me blah blah blah…

I don’t have to be home to get a call, meaning people can actually get a hold of me. I spend a lot of time just be-bopping around campus between classes and running little errands and a lot of my evenings are spend with extracurricular activities or at my boyfriend’s place. Without a cell, no one would ever be able to talk to me.

[Throatwarbler_Mangrove]

Perhaps you can afford to replace a car every two years, but most people can’t. Or maybe they can, but they hate car shopping. Or they like the idea of owning something forever. I’m real rough and tumble with my cars. I like knowing that if I scratch the fender or spill something in the interior, I don’t have to worry about pissing off some dealership when the lease is expires.

You’re real rough and tumble with your car, so you bought a NEW car?

Oooh kay.

So you think that if you smash the bumper on your car, you only have to pay for it if it’s leased? That as long as you own the car, your financial situation has not changed?

You can arrange any kind of financing you want? No wonder there’s a ton of poor people out there driving luxury automobiles. They must have haggled their loan officer real good.

Of course you can. Read what I wrote again. You have a cost of capital, and so does your bank. Of course your’s may be lower than the banks, in which case you may not want to arrange any financing at all, but that has absolutely nothing to do with our topic here.

Maybe I’m missing something in this conversation, but what makes buying a car any different than buying a major appliance or a computer? If I buy a brand new washer and dryer, I’m going to keep them until either I move or they break down.

Do you think the depreciation curve for cars is the same as those items?

[Cat_Whisperer]

@kawaiitentaclebeast

<snip>Hey, it’s all about variance. You guys made a big, risky bet 3 years ago and so far, you’ve won. Sorry if my risk appetite isn’t quite on the same level.

So…nope, still don’t get it.

Our house purchase didn’t strike me as risky at all - we are paying in mortgage about the same amount that we were paying in rent, and our mortgage (even after increasing the leverage) will be an amount that either one of us working full-tiime can handle easily. If we were talking about people who extend their credit to the absolute max to buy a house at the peak of a hot market and make themselves house-poor and likely to lose it if either lose their jobs, then I would agree with you.

Using our house as part of our retirement package is not a savings decision; it’s a reducing-expenses decision, which is also part of retirement planning. We should have no rent or mortgage by the time we are retiring, which means we need much less money to live.

Like most things, you have to make a house purchase decision based on your own situation. I still think ours was a low-risk, high-reward decision. Your mileage is more than welcome to vary.

[Misnomer]

@kawaiitentaclebeast

1. WHY do you want a car that lasts 10 years? What purpose does that serve?

Financial purpose: I get 5-6 years without a lease or loan payment, while still having a vehicle that’s in good shape.

If you can live with a 10 year old car 10 years from now why can’t you live with a 10 year old car TODAY?

You refuse to see the difference between a car that I’ve owned for 10 years and a 10-year-old car that I buy from someone else. In 10 years I’ll be driving a car that doesn’t cost me a penny in either capital or interest (let alone a lease payment), but that wouldn’t be true if I were driving someone else’s 10-year-old car today. I’m driving a 4-year-old car today – is that too old for you, too?

Is there something about old people that makes them crave 10 year old rustbuckets?

Watch the “old people” stuff, junior. But why is a 10-year-old car automatically a “rustbucket?” When I finally gave up the Mirage it certainly didn’t look its age. People were constantly surprised when they found out how old it was.

2. Who the hell cares about your car payment? You can go to the bank and arrange any kind of financing you want, you have a cost of capital and so does the bank, what does that have to do with anything?

I have no idea what you’re saying here. My car payment has everything to do with it. Are you saying that it’s better to always have either a loan or lease payment?

The bottom line is that you voluntarily took the biggest hit in depreciation on a new vehicle so that you could have “no car payments”, whatever that means.

What do you mean, “whatever that means?” What part of “no car payments” don’t you understand? Yes, cars depreciate immensely the moment they’re driven off the lot, but “the bottom line” is that the way you offset depreciation is by paying them off as soon as possible while keeping them for as long as possible.

You don’t honestly think car dealers are giving you something for nothing, do you?

How is “I’m happy to drive a 10-year-old car and not have a car payment” the same as “I think I’m getting something for nothing?”

So while I’m happy that there are folks like you willing to shoulder the initial depreciation burden, I don’t understand WHY you do it, aside from the bling factor, which would only apply to luxury vehicles and not shitbox Toyotas anyway.

I don’t understand what you don’t understand. We shoulder the initial depreciation burden because we make up for it by keeping the car long after it’s payed off. Plus, every car I’ve had has been worth something at trade-in time, no matter how old it was. I don’t understand how you think that buying a new car once every 10 years equates to any kind of “bling factor.”

[SnakesCatLady]

@hawksgirl

About cell phones:
I don’t have a landline. Why deal with it? I’m a student, I’m not home at reliable times and I don’t want the hassle of my roommates not taking a message when there was an important one for me blah blah blah…

I don’t have to be home to get a call, meaning people can actually get a hold of me. I spend a lot of time just be-bopping around campus between classes and running little errands and a lot of my evenings are spend with extracurricular activities or at my boyfriend’s place. Without a cell, no one would ever be able to talk to me.

I don’t think the “I don’t get it” factor was about cell phones in general, it was about the cell phones that take pictures, do e-mail, play games, walk the dog, mow the yard, etc… Cell phones are very convenient when you need to stay in touch, and I know more than a few people who no longer have a landline in favor of a cell phone. I just don’t need, or want to pay for, all the bells and whistles. I want to talk on it when I need it, not have a meaningful relationship with it.

[monstro]

[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast]
You’re real rough and tumble with your car, so you bought a NEW car?

Oooh kay.
[/quote[

Well, no. I’ve never bought a new car. I’m not in the proper income bracket to do that.

But I don’t get your question. Say I really like the newest Subaru Outback, and I’ve decided I’m at the point in my life when I want to have a shiny new toy instead of a shiny, pre-owned toy. I figure that my Outback will last me quite a long time (10 years +), and I get to drive it all over creation, without worrying about going over the mileage limit, minor dings and scratches, and turning it in after 18 months.

Perhaps after 10 years, I will be in the mood for another kind of car (maybe less sporty). Instead of trading that car, I can cover it and keep it as my weekend ride. Or give it to my niece once she starts driving. Maybe in another 20 years, it will be a classic. I can restore it and sell it for considerable profit. The point is that it will be mine to do with whatever I want. Yes, it’s ten years older, but it’s still mine.

There are benefits to leasing, sure. But there are also downsides. I prefer the upsides to buying over the downsides of leasing. It really isn’t any more complicated than that.

So you think that if you smash the bumper on your car, you only have to pay for it if it’s leased? That as long as you own the car, your financial situation has not changed?

I have quite a few dings and scratches on my ole Ford Mustang. Some of them I put there, some of them were put there by others. None of them elicited swear words, tears, or anger when I discovered them. Why? Because it’s my car and I can choose what damage I care to fix. If I put a ding in a leased vehicle, I have to be accountable for it. Just as I have to be accountable to all the the miles I rack up. I have no choice in the matter, unless I want to buy the vehicle after the lease expires (which would be a dumb decision).

So yes, if I smash my bumper, my financial situation is pretty much the same unless I decide I want to repair it. No one will penalize me if I decide not to. I really really like that kind of freedom.

Do you think the depreciation curve for cars is the same as those items?

Frankly, I don’t know and I don’t care. But it seems to me looking at the other kinds of purchases that people make would help you to understand why people decide to hold on to their vehicles for a long time. Maybe I’m wrong.

[Boyo_Jim]

Religious faith, especially the schizo American comingling of Christianity and capitalism.
Belief in God(s) by modern humans.
Richard Simmons.
2004 voters for George Bush.
Golf on TV.
Royalty – hard to imagine the institution made it as far as the 21st century.
The SUV craze
Regis and Whatshername

[Johanna]

Here’s something I seriously cannot understand, economically.

At the Maryland Renaissance Festival there are some vendor stalls that sell only one item. And these are huge “stalls” too, they’re often as big as regular shops. The RenFest only goes for what, a month or so out of the year? And it’s a permanent real estate investment for the owner? And they have to earn back their whole investment based on that narrow window of time? So the rents for vendor stalls must be pretty stiff, necessitating moving a lot of merch in a hurry just to break even.

So when I saw a big stall selling nothing but toy “magic wands” (for kids who haven’t already bought the official Harry Potter merch?), my mind boggled. I admit I don’t have a good grasp of economics, but intuitively this just did not add up. How can that one-item store–for which, admit it, there isn’t even a big demand–possibly exist? A tax write-off?

[Hostile_Dialect]

@silenus

I hear that. I’ve never driven a truck I haven’t kept for at least 10 years. I’ll get a new one only when the old one dies. I just don’t get the “gotta have a new one” mindset.

Me neither. Why throw all that money away making rich men richer? I have a paid-off 2002 which I hope to drive until at least 2017. Given that it’s a first model year vehicle, I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t last that long–but still, I don’t see any point at all to dropping thousands on another car before I have to.

@Lissa

I don’t get cell phones.

My roommates and I all have cell phones. We’re all out of the house a lot, so we need a way to get in touch with people (friends, family, each other, whatever) when necessary. I like talking to my GF throughout the day, anyway. We need cell phones and we can’t afford to pay for more than one phone plan each, so we don’t have a landline at all–we just use our cellphones exclusively. Anyway, given that five people live here, there’d be a lot of frustration over who got to the phone first etc.

[quote=Lissa]
Texting? The only purpose for this feature seems to be to enable people to keep that oh-so-crucial contact in class, or court, or anywhere they can’t speak aloud or they’ll get in trouble.

Or maybe I’m hanging out with a group of people and I want to say something briefly to someone else, and I don’t want to have a conversation out loud. Or maybe I’m in public and I want to say something private to my girlfriend.

@Lissa

God knows, they have no problem having very loud converations in places where it’s merely rude to do so.

Out of the ridiculously vast number of people all around you who have cell phones, what percentage of them have you seen have rude cellphone conversations in the last month? Put down that brush before you hurt someone with it.

@Lissa

Ring tones? What the fuck? Why would people want to pay extra money to have the “hottest” new ringtone which sounds like the current number-one pop single?

This I agree with. Then again, I don’t get pop music, either.

@kawaiitentaclebeast

Yes, desperation has always been the best factor in rational decision making.

“Ooh, shiny” is a better criterion, right?

@kawaiitentaclebeast

WHY do you want a car that lasts 10 years? What purpose does that serve?

If my car lasts 10 years, I don’t have to buy another car for 10 years.

@kawaiitentaclebeast

Were you planning on moving to some part of the country where you could not buy any cars for 10 years?

“Could not”? Is buying cars an exciting experience you’d hate to miss out on? I see it as a necessary expense. But then again, I don’t get shopping, either.

@kawaiitentaclebeast

If you can live with a 10 year old car 10 years from now why can’t you live with a 10 year old car TODAY?

This question has already been answered. Were you paying attention, or were you just waiting for your turn to talk?

@SnakesCatLady

I don’t think the “I don’t get it” factor was about cell phones in general

It was in Lissa’s post.

@Boyo Jim

Religious faith, especially the schizo American comingling of Christianity and capitalism.
Belief in God(s) by modern humans.
Richard Simmons.
2004 voters for George Bush.
Golf on TV.

@Boyo Jim

Royalty – hard to imagine the institution made it as far as the 21st century.

Actually, the current King of Spain singlehandedly saved that nation from dictatorship and made it a constitutional democracy. He was an inside man in the Franco regime who Franco believed would carry on his tyrannic legacy, and once he got the reins he voluntarily turned his power over to his people and kept the title.

[Mr_Jim]

i guess I don’t understand why people don’t get the appeal of texting. It’s great! It gets rid all the polite bullshit you have to force into a conversation and I don’t have to stop and interrupt what I’m doing to take a call. Here are all the texts in my inbox (I generally empty it once a week):

May be late? It’s 5 o’clock!
Thats good, glad that u enjoyed them!
That’s ok ill allow just the once…have fun tonight
Hello.
Got to Reading ok. Thanks you for having me and looking after me. Breakfast was good, thank you. Have a good night. Speak to you next week.
Hi Jill. Changed my mind so not coming. Have a good night.
I’ll just need something to read on the way home so I dont fall asleep dont worry i may get one on the tube
Can u save a metro for me?
Is it too late to call?
Not hugely. Why?
its uber cool.
Night.
No Problem. So do i.
I love Giles…
Nearly there…tube problems.
Thanks for the cheque. Ruth
Yeah we’ll be there.
Well I haven’t left home yet!#Want to come to a gig tonight?
Yep. Hiya.
Cool keep trying! Did you say they were free.
DO you know who else might be up for it? Have been sent 4 tickets!
Well maybe there’s somewhere that does both!
I’m not having a burger.
I don’t. I’m on a diet!
Ok see you then.
Well I’m in the pub with a few people.
Well I’m behaving perfectly normal with her. It’s just getting used to it.
Not sure that’s true. I’m with one now!
Whatever you say. Can’t we just get used to being normal?
If you like. There’s no need to complcate the situation with overplanning. We just need to be sensible!
Probably better not.
As I say, let’s hope!
Well they still haven’t arrived!
Assuming the tickets arrive!
Yeah
i live in south woodford which is really nice h/e I’m working near
brightonat the moment which is shiteCan’t wait to get back to london
and settle.
Was only just wondering if you were doing the same!
Which one?
The tickets. Can you see anything wrong with them?
Does it all look ok?
Did you get it?
No I didn’t. but I have been playing Lego 2

[britboy]

@kawaiitentaclebeast

Of course you can. Read what I wrote again. You have a cost of capital, and so does your bank. Of course your’s may be lower than the banks, in which case you may not want to arrange any financing at all, but that has absolutely nothing to do with our topic here.

…

Do you think the depreciation curve for cars is the same as those items?

OK I think I’ve figured out what’s going on here: our cute tentacle beast is being an arrogant economist.

I’ve been reading this thread for awhile and whilst I think I understand what kawaii hito’s getting at I don’t understand the vague obstructivist language. Some concrete examples are worth a thousand ‘depreciation curves’.

Here’s some of what I think bakatentaclebeast’s trying to say:

• a new car loses a huge chunk of it’s value (‘depreciates’) when you drive it out of the dealership, and a huge chunk more in the first year. Therefore buying cars that are a year or so old makes much more sense financially than buying new.

• If you buy a new car now and keep it for 12 years, then … now you have a new car … in 12 years you have an old banger. So if you’ll be able to tolerate it in 12 years, why do you need a new car now? Why not just buy yourself a twelve year old banger now very cheaply and let some other poor sucker swallow the depreciation.

• If on the other hand you want to drive a new car, then why saddle yourself with an old banger in 12 years? Why not just start leasing and you’ll continually be able to drive new.

• About access to capital - those dealer ‘special offers’ conceal the fact you’re taking a hit on the depreciation. It might be a better deal for you to take a more advantageous bank loan to finance a 1 year-old used car.

Phew.

BritBoy

[brendon_small]

@Quartz

Other emergencies too: I understand some very useful footage was taken on 7/7/2005.

I might be showing that I do indeed live under a rock, or I might just be misremembering, but what happened on 7/7?

Brendon

[Ephemera]

The London bombings.

[Sutremaine]

@britboy

• If you buy a new car now and keep it for 12 years, then … now you have a new car … in 12 years you have an old banger. So if you’ll be able to tolerate it in 12 years, why do you need a new car now? Why not just buy yourself a twelve year old banger now very cheaply and let some other poor sucker swallow the depreciation.

Because it’s unlikely to last another twelve years?

I don’t get making celebrities out of reality show contestants. Someone at work keeps bringing those magazines in, and it’s like backyard gossip, but about complete strangers and you don’t get to join in the conversation.

[LavenderBlue]

I don’t get why Paris Hilton is famous or why people keep a balance on their credit cards.

[Nava]

People who ask for independent-thinking employees and complain that, while they were on vacation, the employees did some independent thinking.

People who think they must micromanage everybody else. In a friend’s words, “children should be hatched, not born”; sadly mothers aren’t the only ones who sometimes seem related to an octopus.

People who think you are defined by how much you make and/or your position in the company’s organigram. There have been times where I was “on the bottom rung” inasmuch as I didn’t have any subordinates, but my direct supervisor’s direct supervisor was a VP… where does that put me, in those people’s book?

People who buy a 20yo BMW because they absolutely must have a BMW, and then proceed to whine up a storm because their car breaks up frequently. Hon, a 20yo any-other-car would be in the junkyard. OTOH, people like the sales manager at my bro’s job are fine in my book: he buys ultra-high-end cars, repairs anything that needs repairing and keeps four because that’s how many his garage can keep; when another one catches his eye, he sells one of the previous four. It’s his hobby, he has fun, he can afford the beasties and his wife is ok with it.

Women’s mags notion that if you have big boobs you should hide them and if you’re flat you should push 'em up. Figure out what is it you’ve got and flaunt what you got, not what Naomi Campbell got! (unless, of course, you happen to be Naomi Campbell, in which case you’re welcome to flaunt what Naomi Campbell got)

Too many people’s notion of normality. I don’t want to be normal. I want to be happy, which from my understanding is a pretty normal thing to want

[Freudian_Push_Up_Bra]

Brief hijack: Nava; how would I go about…‘hatching’ a child as opposed to giving birth to one?

/hijack

On Cellphones:

I have one so that my mum can call me. I live with my dad on the other side of the country. She calls me from work on her break (which is allowed). She has a cell because they were paying line rental and nothing else. My brother has a cell too.

I <3 text messaging because it makes stuff so much easier. I’m not huge on phone conversations. I tend to do several things at once and I can’t sit on the phone and talk for ages with someone because I get distracted and stop listening.

Texting means that my dad can tell me when/if he’s coming home tonight or if he’s going interstate, my mum can say goodnight to me without risking waking me up (two hour time difference), my boyfriend can also say goodnight to me without either of having to have a pointless phone call ‘Just ringing to say goodnight.’ ‘okay. goodnight.’ Instead we have 'Just saying goodnight, I love you, <insert details about picking someone up/meeting somewhere/etc>.

It also means I can keep in touch with my 14 yr old brother. We don’t call each other but we email each other stupid sites and text silly messages.

Plus the camera on my phone is as good as my normal digital camera.

[Bites_When_Provoked]

@kawaiitentaclebeast

The point is that your consumption rationale makes no sense to me. Did you buy it in 1994? If so, why? If you, at this point, are satisfied with a 12 year old car, why would you not have been satisfied with a 12 year old car in 1994? Are you telling me that you absolutely NEEDED a new car 12 years ago, but now you’re satisfied with a 10 year old car? If I can’t stand driving a 12 year old car now, I sure as hell ain’t going to be driving one when I’m 30.

I missed this the first time around.

The short answer is: I’ve never had anything against 12 year old cars (in my case, 9 year old cars) per se, but I have a lot against 12 (9) year old cars with a service history that’s doubtful, where I don’t know how well they’ve been maintained, I don’t know why they’ve been replaced, and I don’t know whether I’m shelling out money for something that’s on the death cycle.

In other words, I refuse to take on someone else’s lemon. My 9 year old car has been maintained beautifully since new, has never been delayed on Servicing by more than 1,000km (about 500 miles), has never been off-road, in a crash, left to rust or any other number of things that can be bodgied over long enough to resell it so that it becomes some unsuspecting dupe’s problem three to six months later.

So that’s why It’s not status, it’s security.

[Bites_When_Provoked]

And I still don’t get the ‘10 year old now’ vs ‘10 year old in 10 years’ argument. In 10 years time, the 10 year old car will be 20, IF it’s still running. Sure, I could keep buying cheap, crappy cars every year and still not have a car that I can trust has been reliably maintained…or I can buy one, new, and actually look after it.

This whole ‘depreciation’ argument you have going is only of value if I’m actually selling the car. The fact that I haven’t sold it means it’s really completely irrelevant. What do I care what it’s worth on paper? It’s completely unrelated to anything.