# Stupendous Stupidity in Science Fiction (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932 "2009-08-27T17:57:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/201 "2009-09-08T14:04:57Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Logical problems in the StarShip Troopers movie can be easily explained in a fun fanwank way with two things: > > 1. A very gullible, well-trained populace > 2. A very manipulative, sneaky, less-than-fully-transparent government. > > The asteroid being flung from Klendathu doesn’t make sense unless you admit the bugs have advanced FTL technology or a lot of careful planning or long-range communication. None of that stuff, even flinging the asteroid, makes any sense unless the bugs are highly intelligent, which the Federation is also shown as hesitant to accept. Also remember that in the movie, its implied that the humans antagonized the bugs first by encroaching on their territory. > > So either the bugs are far more advanced than the humans wanted to accept/indicate, or the asteroid attack on Earth was a fraud perpetuated to justify a massive war against the bugs for some reason (or maybe both, the bugs are highly advanced, and the human government wanted an excuse to go to war with them for some reason). > > Since all the movies are presented as propaganda films-within-films (especially the amazingly bad “Hero of the Federation”), it gets even weirder. Like the director of the film-within-the-film was just not very good at details or something. Or the director of the film itself maybe was fuzzy on speeds and distances or some such. 😃 I was under the impression that the asteroid was sent after the invasion fleet had launched. Remember that Denise Richards’ ship got hit by it. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/202 "2009-09-08T14:14:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, you have to conserve everything. I was only focusing on energy because it’s the total amount of energy that will determine the amount of damage it causes. Is that true? If you blow the asteroid into small pieces and every piece still hits the earth, still, many of them might dissipate in Earth’s atmosphere. I don’t know what the effects of that would be, but I suspect they’d be better than the effects of a collision with the surface. The total amount of energy would be the same as you say, but the total amount of damage might differ. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/203 "2009-09-08T14:20:29Z")
> [@CutterJohn](#): > > Oh! Oh! The nuke is apparently sooooo massive, it has its own gravity!!! Even though its about the size of a football field cubed, give or take. Sure, that has gravity, but these people are standing on the sides. 😛 FWIW in the commentary (or somewhere) it’s explained that there’s part of the backstory that never made it to the film that involves the notion that that football field sized cube is supercompressed and actually contains the mass of a large city, or something like that. I don’t know the math, so I don’t know if that works out concerning gravity etc, but at least someone involved in writing the thing was concerned about the issue you brought up. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/204 "2009-09-08T14:22:31Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I was under the impression that the asteroid was sent after the invasion fleet had launched. Remember that Denise Richards’ ship got hit by it. In a scene which seemed to indicate that FTL speeds are “slower than walking”. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/205 "2009-09-08T15:10:09Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > Don’t quote me but I believe the ‘official’ fanwank is that Star Wars fighter craft have ‘etheric’ rudders. IIRC, the X-Wing manual had manoevering thrusters on the edge of its S-Foils, so it should have “flown” like the Star Furies. ---
**Author:** ![maniondl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@maniondl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maniondl)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/206 "2009-09-08T16:21:17Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Alien frat initiation! Tau Delta Blern lost a lot of good pledges that day… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/207 "2009-09-08T17:19:27Z")
> [@Mike\_J\_Nagle](#): > > My second example is from the movie “Starship Troopers”, supposedly based on Robert A. Heinlein’s excellent novel. (Actually, they used some of the book’s characters’ names, and few, if any, of their actions. Beyond that, everything else is changed beyond recognition.) _Starship Troopers_, the novel: Citizenship, military service, and fascism. _Starship Troopers_, the movie: Propaganda, blowin’ shit up, and naked co-ed shower scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/208 "2009-09-08T17:20:09Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > _Starship Troopers_, the novel: Citizenship, military service, and fascism. > _Starship Troopers_, the movie: Propaganda, blowin’ shit up, and naked co-ed shower scenes. You say that like it’s a BAD thing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/209 "2009-09-08T17:50:26Z")
The sad part is, even by the metric of “blow shit up real good”, which Hollywood normally excels at, the book was still better than the movie. Where were the nuclear hand grenades, or the twenty-second bomb? Where was the friggin’ powered armor? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/210 "2009-09-08T19:59:00Z")
**treis** said: > [@](#): > > I was under the impression that the asteroid was sent after the invasion fleet had launched. Remember that Denise Richards’ ship got hit by it. IIRC, asteroid attacks were repeated and ongoing. That was not the same asteroid as the one that hit Rio. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/211 "2009-09-08T20:32:27Z")
> [@](#): > > IIRC, asteroid attacks were repeated and ongoing. That was not the same asteroid as the one that hit Rio. No, it was pretty clearly intended to be the same meteor – that was the point of it coming so close that it broke off their communications antenna – they couldn’t warn Earth it was coming. Of course, this makes not an iota of sense, no matter how you fanwank it. Verhoeven clearly neither knew nor cared about accuracy and consistency of his universe’s science plus imaginary science. He wanted non-tech bugs using natural weapons who nevertheless could inflict damage on a planet at the other end of the galaxy, apparently acting as if Earth and Klendathu were closer than Earth and Mars. The number of errors – technical, scientific, and logical in that scenario are overwhelming. Best not to think about it too much. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/212 "2009-09-08T22:12:44Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > To be fair, they did establish in JP-I that _T. rex_ was a stealthy bugger. I think the scientists at InGen neglected to inform the Jurassic Park staff that, in addition to using frog DNA to fill in the gaps in the dino DNA, they were also using ninja DNA… Which is particularly odd, considering the T-Rex causes a loud thud that makes the ground shake with each step. > [@Miller](#): > > Out of curiosity, how do slugs and snails react to salt water? Many species actually _live_ in salt water. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/213 "2009-09-08T22:24:26Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > _Starship Troopers_, the novel: Citizenship, military service, and fascism. > _Starship Troopers_, the movie: Propaganda, blowin’ shit up, and naked co-ed shower scenes. Except for the facism part. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/214 "2009-09-08T22:44:58Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Except for the facism part. Debatable. On the one hand, militarism != fascism; fascism is a form of totalitarianism, and the Federation actually seems to be a rather libertarian, minarchist society. OTOH, one of the central doctrines of “History and Moral Philosophy” – doctrine the **officers** of the Federation military are expected to learn and internalize (and who do you think is going to go on to hold high public office post-service, in that society?) – is that life in the Universe is an unending, zero-sum struggle between different sentient species for cosmic _Lebensraum;_ peaceful coexistence is not a realistic option, save on an interim breathing-space basis. If you substitute “nations” or “races” for “species,” that’s pretty central to the historical worldview of all forms of fascism. And that’s one thing that **did** survive in the film adaptation. ---
**Author:** ![LAV25](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/97f17d/32.png) [@LAV25](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAV25)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/215 "2009-09-09T01:06:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The sad part is, even by the metric of “blow shit up real good”, which Hollywood normally excels at, the book was still better than the movie. Where were the nuclear hand grenades, or the twenty-second bomb? Where was the friggin’ powered armor? I seem to recall an interview with the director where he said that basically the budget would cover either the bugs or the powered armor, but not both. If that’s true, I guess I can forgive him that. The movie (bad enough already) would have been truly and totally unwatchable with mini-Gundams running around fighting against Power Ranger bugs… But where were the earrings? -val ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/216 "2009-09-09T01:22:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Debatable. On the one hand, militarism != fascism; fascism is a form of totalitarianism, and the Federation actually seems to be a rather libertarian, minarchist society. OTOH, one of the central doctrines of “History and Moral Philosophy” – doctrine the **officers** of the Federation military are expected to learn and internalize (and who do you think is going to go on to hold high public office post-service, in that society?) – is that life in the Universe is an unending, zero-sum struggle between different sentient species for cosmic _Lebensraum;_ peaceful coexistence is not a realistic option, save on an interim breathing-space basis. If you substitute “nations” or “races” for “species,” that’s pretty central to the historical worldview of all forms of fascism. > > And that’s one thing that **did** survive in the film adaptation. No, actually it didn’t and it’s not facism. A LOT of things are necessary for a worldview to be facist. Having one tenet that is shared with some forms of facism isn’t enough. That’s the equivalent of saying that someone who supports universal health care is a Communist. No, they are not most likely and definitely not necessarily. Yes, most Communist countries have universal health care, but wanting universal health care doesn’t make you a Communist. It’s the same thing here. Believing that there is going to be a struggle for resources between different species/nations doesn’t make you a facist just because facists believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/217 "2009-09-09T01:38:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I seem to recall an interview with the director where he said that basically the budget would cover either the bugs or the powered armor, but not both. If that’s true, I guess I can forgive him that. To which the proper solution was to wait about two years before making the movie for special effects to come down in price. Of course, the solution also involves not letting Verhoeven anywhere within a hundred klicks of the project, so it was probably a lost cause from the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/218 "2009-09-09T02:52:05Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > I don’t know if this one has been mentioned yet, but I just saw **Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea** and I think I lost about 10 IQ points as a result. I don’t know what is more stupid: that the Van Allen belt catches on fire and raises the Earth’s temperature to 173 degrees, or the giant squid that decided to start humping a nuclear submarine at a depth that already crushed another submarine. (Actually, it blew up – go figure.) Not defending the Van Allen belt thing, but [the largest squids](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_squid#Ecology_and_life_history) have been reported to range down to depths of well over a mile. And there are living things all the way down–when the _Trieste_ went down into the Challenger Deep (once, 20 minutes, 1960, etc.) they reported a number of critters down there. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/219 "2009-09-09T15:04:30Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > No, actually it didn’t and it’s not facism. Regardless of whether or not Heinlein was depicting a fascist society, intentionally or not, the fact that we can debate it at all means, to me, that at some level the novel can be said to be about fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932/220 "2009-09-09T16:10:08Z")
Independence Day, why didn’t the aliens (if they really were just after Earth for the minerals) just slam one of the smaller ships, or a number of them, into the planet’s surface at high speed? I guess you wouldn’t have such a splendid knock off of all those 50s/60s flying saucer films, but on the other hand I think we the audience should demand more! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupendous-stupidity-in-science-fiction-open-spoilers/507932.md?page=12)