# Stupid argument for Bush reading "My Pet Goat" (lame, outdated)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 12, 2008, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237 "2008-09-12T06:10:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/41 "2008-09-12T20:18:10Z")
> [@Giles](#):
>
> Right. He was too dumb to work out what was going on right under his nose. If he’d worked it out, he’d have demanded a share of the takings. All he was good for was to photograph well, so that all the new women voters would go for him.
You libs and your “Oh he stole the election [with his good looks]” talking point. :rolleyes: Just jealous of a good looking and popular guy is all.
Who ended WWI? – Harding!!
Who took care of our Veterans? – Harding!!
Who pardoned Debbs? – Harding!!
You libs are just jealous of a great man like Harding. Why if he hadn’t of died, he’d have showed you all. You just have Harding Derangement Syndrome.
But just you wait. Once he’s out of office, his legacy will be as the best President in the 20th Century!!!
---
### Author:  [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/42 "2008-09-12T20:30:51Z")
I’m still pissed off about this issue, not because it’s a particularly important one on any grand scheme of things, but because it’s one where I find the opposing viewpoint to be so totally and completely unsupportable. There are plenty of issues (abortion, gun rights, death penalty, various environmental questions, what to do about Iraq now that we’re there, etc.) where I have an opinion and other people disagree, but I can totally understand how intelligent and well-meaning and patriotic Americans can completely disagree with me.
Then there are issues like gay marriage where I have absolutely no sympathy for any of the opposing arguments at all. The Pet Goat issue is one of those. It is just utterly plain to me that Bush’s actions in that classroom, while not a particularly huge deal on the cosmic scale, were absolutely not the actions of a decisive leader. Heck, they weren’t even the actions of leader.
Granted, it was an insanely horrible situation, but it just gets my panties in a bunch that so few right wingers are capable of saying “yeah, that wasn’t Bush’s finest moment”. It just emblemizes for me the “rally around our leader and refuse to acknowledge any criticism of any sort” attitude that has so pervaded American politics of late.
Anyhow, [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270550) is a thread wherein I discuss my position at great length in the OP, and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=271515) is a parody thread in which I attempt to attack the idea that whatever Bush did, he would have been attacked by liberals for it (although I did a very poor job of making it clear that it was a parody).
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/43 "2008-09-12T20:31:25Z")
> [@Hamlet](#):
>
> Who ended WWI? – Harding!!
Huh? I thought Wilson both started and ended the Great War.\* That just about evens things up, so it’s no credit for the Democrats.
However, he wouldn’t have been elected as president if you Republicans hadn’t split between Roosevelt and Taft in the election of 1912. Imagine an incumbent president only getting 8 votes in the electoral college! Imagine an incumbent president being beaten by a Socialist candidate in a few states! That was the election of 1912.
- Any fighting between the Brits, the French, the Germans and the Austrians being, of course, completely irrelevant until Uncle Sam stepped in.
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### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/44 "2008-09-12T20:36:54Z")
King George III did SO impose taxation without representation! Anyone who argues otherwise is a moron.
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/45 "2008-09-12T20:50:31Z")
> [@Giles](#):
>
> Huh? I thought Wilson both started and ended the Great War.\* That just about evens things up, so it’s no credit for the Democrats.
And once again you libs try to take credit for the great work of a Republican. The war wasn’t over until HARDING signed the treaties with Germany, Austria, and Hungary. Not WarMonger Wilson. HARDING.
> [@Giles](#):
>
> However, he wouldn’t have been elected as president if you Republicans hadn’t split between Roosevelt and Taft in the election of 1912. Imagine an incumbent president only getting 8 votes in the electoral college! Imagine an incumbent president being beaten by a Socialist candidate in a few states! That was the election of 1912.
And who gave the nominating speech for Taft in 1912? HARDING!
Besides, everybody knows that Democrats killed Harding. I heard it on talk telegraph.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/46 "2008-09-12T21:00:05Z")
The media are afraid to come _near_ the scandals of the Benjamin Harrison administration. After all these years, they’re still complicit in the coverup.
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### Author:  [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/47 "2008-09-12T21:42:19Z")
> [@tagos](#):
>
> True. But I can’t get Bush’s boner out of my mind. So this is what it feels like to be Sam Stone, Clothahump, Starving Artist etc.
Poor show. :dubious:
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### Author:  [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/48 "2008-09-12T21:46:25Z")
> [@Giraffe](#):
>
> Who gives a crap? At the time, it was sort of relevant because it demonstrated that Bush’s instincts in a crisis weren’t great. I think it’s safe to say that we now have far more striking examples of that. Beyond that, his leaving that classroom eight minutes earlier wouldn’t have changed anything.
>
> This Pitting is stupid and so are you.
Ok, I don’t give a crap. But! I have always thought it odd that folks say it demonstrates his instincts weren’t great. 8 minutes isn’t really that long. It’s not a do or die block of time. Just because he didn’t break out in a panic doesn’t mean he was not thinking. He could very well have been taking a minute to let something like that process. If he had gotten up immediately, you can bet there would have been an 8 minute block _somewhere_ that wasn’t _completely packed with lifesaving action._
When folks say this stuff it always makes me feel the way I feel when they say, “She probably did kill the child. Did you see how she showed no emotion at the funeral?” or stuff like that. I don’t think it is an accurate way to judge anything.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/49 "2008-09-12T22:10:46Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#):
>
> 8 minutes isn’t really that long. It’s not a do or die block of time. Just because he didn’t break out in a panic doesn’t mean he was not thinking.
It’s _what_ he was thinking that matters.
Take the next 8 full minutes and repeat to yourself over and over, “What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? …”
It’ll seem like an hour.
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### Author:  [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/50 "2008-09-12T22:14:42Z")
I think Shrub ranks right down there with the worst Presidents ever, if he hasn’t actually taken, uh, last prize. But this criticism is just stupid.
He did have a certain raccoon-in-the-headlights gaze working but those few minutes didn’t matter a damn. Sure, he could have gotten away faster because let’s face it, kids will accept flat-out ludicrous things without a blink. Especially since they were probably a lot more focused on the novelty of a President and those nifty Secret Service guys than My Pet Goat.
Shrub _could_ said, “Then my little goat went to a Greek party where he was served with lemons and thyme! The end.” Nicely ambiguous about the actual goat fate thing, quick and it would have sailed right over the kids’ heads. But he didn’t. Could be he’s never _eaten_ Greek food. Never mind that.
Ahem.
Those few minutes wouldn’t have made one iota difference in anything that happened. I fault the smug, arrogant twit for a lot of things but pausing a few minutes to collect his thoughts isn’t one of them.
Yep, lame and outdated.
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### Author:  [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/51 "2008-09-12T22:16:06Z")
I’ve heard the argument that he may have had time to stop the Pentagon attack. Fighters were already in the air, and if he had ordered that they take down any off-course planes that would not respond to being hailed, that might have prevented the attack.
I don’t know if that’s true, and I doubt that 8 minutes would have made that big a difference, but I do think his not wanting to be briefed further and get involved immediately says something about him. If I was president and someone told me that there was just an attack on the WTC, I would want to know more immediately.
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### Author:  [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/52 "2008-09-12T23:09:02Z")
> [@TVeblen](#):
>
> Those few minutes wouldn’t have made one iota difference in anything that happened.
I can’t believe I’m potentially starting this argument up again, but… the important question is not whether in retrospect those few minutes could have made a difference, the important questions are:
(1) Whether it was clear AT THE TIME that no action Bush could take would possibly matter. When he was given the message “a second plane has hit the WTC, America is under attack”, do you think he immediately accessed his encyclopedic knowledge of America’s disaster-response scenarios, categorized and sorted them, and immediately realized “hmm, in this situation there is nothing I can do for the next… 7 minutes. I will keep reading”?
(2) Why he was so utterly externally unruffled. He was just told the most alarming news given to an American president since Pearl Harbor, and he just sat there reading a children’s book for 7 minutes. Because he had such massively enormous balls of steel and such phenomenal strategic brilliance that he was able to use 80% of his brainpower to efficiently start collating possible responses and scenarios while the other 20% kept up his affable exterior and kept reading about the goat? Or because he’s a fucking puppet who was just sitting there until Cheney told him what to do next?
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### Author:  [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/53 "2008-09-12T23:30:02Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#):
>
> (2) why he was so utterly externally unruffled. He was just told the most alarming news given to an american president since pearl harbor, and he just sat there reading a children’s book for 7 minutes. Because he had such massively enormous balls of steel and such phenomenal strategic brilliance that he was able to use 80% of his brainpower to efficiently start collating possible responses and scenarios while the other 20% kept up his affable exterior and kept reading about the goat? Or because he’s a fucking puppet who was just sitting there until cheney told him what to do next?
haaaaaaaaaa!
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/54 "2008-09-13T00:15:31Z")
> [@appleciders](#):
>
> How eloquent. Only your clear, thoughtful addition to this argument could possibly have convinced me, but now, now I see that you’re right!
>
> At least pretend to make an argument.
Sorry, no. Ignorance is one thing, deliberate stupidity is something totally different. He chose the latter.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/55 "2008-09-13T00:27:52Z")
Could you please explain what you mean? Or are you just going to be a smug cocksucker and keep saying “sorry, no?”
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/56 "2008-09-13T00:43:31Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#):
>
> Could you please explain what you mean? Or are you just going to be a smug cocksucker and keep saying “sorry, no?”
Well, some idiot jerkoff came in and said “If it were a Democratic president, he would have been lauded for continuing to read with the children - the CHILDREN! Our FUTURE! - even after hearing the dire news. People would have seen it as honorable.”
You choose resolute stupidity, I’m not going to kiss your neck and hold your hand.
Sorry, no.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/57 "2008-09-13T01:02:40Z")
The reason why I think the Pet Goat Incident is a non-argument is because it was presented by Michael Moore, an unskilled propagandist and complete hack. It’s not that I’m defending Bush at all, it’s that I hate the fact that whenever there are a bunch of people who are opposed to someone politically, they manage to find fault with _every single thing_ they do, and blow it up way out of proportion and act like it’s the fucking end of the world.
On the surface, it’s easy for a knee jerk Bush basher to just think, “durrr, Bush is so dumb…durrr…” when hearing about the Pet Goat book. And yeah, maybe he is dumb. But if you’re going to criticize him for something, let it be something that’s actually justified and important. Not a little trivial detail that’s spoon-fed to you by an ugly, 400 pound, talentless shmuck like Michael Moore.
If you actually think about it - if you really _think_ about it and not just have a knee-jerk reaction - what Bush did with the goat book is only being demonized because it’s presented as part of a huge litany of anti-Bush rhetoric from that movie by Moore, some of which is justified, some of which isn’t.
If the President were not hated the way Bush is hated by so many people - and were to do the same thing, continuing to read the book to the children instead of standing up and leaving all of a sudden, or whatever - I think he would have been praised for “maintaining his composure” and not putting the children in distress over the news, or leaving them confused as to where he went.
That’s the point I was trying to make. Bush is universally hated, and with good reason, but the “My Pet Goat” thing is such a _stupid_ thing to be upset at him for.
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### Author:  [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-argument-for-bush-reading-my-pet-goat-lame-outdated/463237/58 "2008-09-13T22:11:34Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#):
>
> The reason why I think the Pet Goat Incident is a non-argument is because it was presented by Michael Moore, an unskilled propagandist and complete hack. It’s not that I’m defending Bush at all, it’s that I hate the fact that whenever there are a bunch of people who are opposed to someone politically, they manage to find fault with _every single thing_ they do, and blow it up way out of proportion and act like it’s the fucking end of the world.
>
> On the surface, it’s easy for a knee jerk Bush basher to just think, “durrr, Bush is so dumb…durrr…” when hearing about the Pet Goat book. And yeah, maybe he is dumb. But if you’re going to criticize him for something, let it be something that’s actually justified and important. Not a little trivial detail that’s spoon-fed to you by an ugly, 400 pound, talentless shmuck like Michael Moore.
>
> If you actually think about it - if you really _think_ about it and not just have a knee-jerk reaction - what Bush did with the goat book is only being demonized because it’s presented as part of a huge litany of anti-Bush rhetoric from that movie by Moore, some of which is justified, some of which isn’t.
>
> If the President were not hated the way Bush is hated by so many people - and were to do the same thing, continuing to read the book to the children instead of standing up and leaving all of a sudden, or whatever - I think he would have been praised for “maintaining his composure” and not putting the children in distress over the news, or leaving them confused as to where he went.
>
> That’s the point I was trying to make. Bush is universally hated, and with good reason, but the “My Pet Goat” thing is such a _stupid_ thing to be upset at him for.
Bullshit bullshit bullshit. There are plenty, PLENTY, of things Bush has done that have not been criticized. The most obvious example being the decision to go to war in Afghanistan. Sure you can maybe dig up a few quotes from some way-out-leftists or absolute pacifists who disagree with that decision, but there’s a clear general consensus that that was the correct decision, and that the war itself, up to the part where the entire country was occupied, was handled reasonably well. There are also dozens of other things that Bush has done that have received no criticism, but we never hear about them. Why? Because no one is criticizing them.
In any case, if you’d like to seriously debate this issue, I laid out my position very clearly [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270550), and I believe I addressed all the points you have made.
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