# Stupid concepts in video games **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352 "2004-01-27T23:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/41 "2004-01-28T23:22:20Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Huh? You do realize you can change dress spheres in the middle of a battle, right? “Oh, shit I need firaga! Better change dress spheres!” Just like that. And furthermore, there are special items and dress grids you can equip that allows you to have certain abilities. My Riku always has black magic abilities and Paine always has warrior abilities, regardless of the dress sphere. Yeah, I know, but that’s not really the point. I mean, changing clothes in the middle of a fight is bizarre enough as it is, but the way all your character’s abilities are keyed to her outfit bugs me. If I want Paine to cast Firaga, I have to wait until she changes her hat? Huh? Does _she_ know magic spells, or does the _costume_ know magic spells? I’d rather have the flexibility of having a character be able to use any of her abilities right when she needs them. I like FFX-2 a lot, but I can’t help but feel like I’m spending all this time trying to level up my clothes, which for some vague and unidentifiable reason is not as rewarding to me as leveling up my characters. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/42 "2004-01-28T23:41:55Z")
> [@Gumbercules](#): > > Or worse yet, when items aren’t just lying around but are cleverly concealed in > > CRATES!!! > > How many games have used crates? It was never a good concept, guys! But without crates, we would not have the [Crate Review System](http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/39.html), the world’s only completely unbiased review methodology (and the funniest article ever writtin about gaming, bar none). ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/43 "2004-01-28T23:46:52Z")
> [@Poetgrrl](#): > > One game notorious for this was Ninja Gaiden. Ninja Gaiden had a lot of enemies that moved very quickly horizontally, or had jumping/pouncing attacks. […] Also, the _birds_…I don’t know what badguys feed those birds but whatever it is it makes them do 3x as much damage as everyone else. Guy with a bazooka? He’d need to hit me 3 times with his slow-ass projectile to equal the damage an eagle can deal by dive-bombing me. And respawning eagles are even more annoying. Moving back and forth in that game is suicide, because you get enemies constantly respawning and diving/pouncing at you. I feel your pain. > [@bouv](#): > > Utterly stupid items: In FFX there was a girl who fought with a teddy bear…all I’m going to say is OK… Man, this is the worst. Although **Earthbound** is an exception to this. It just seems to fit with the whole theme of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/44 "2004-01-28T23:47:29Z")
Metal Gear Solid also had one of the worst fake-choice segments I’ve ever seen. Mind you, I loved the first part of the game because it had _real_ choices about how to accomplish your goals. But then I hit the part where the stupid ninja attacks me. Now, along the way I had accumulated a nice stash of guns, grenades, and such, and I’m planning to dispatch the ninja with those. But no, I simply can’t use them. Utterly baffled as to why my weapons have suddenly become useless, I phone Thunderbolt Ross (or whatever the general’s name was.) “Hmm, it seems like he wants to fight you hand to hand!” Well good for him, but isn’t the whole point of, you know, strategy and tactics to _avoid_ doing what your enemy wants? If the game designers want to _force_ me to give up my weapons and fight hand to hand, they should at least go to the effort of using the old “you’re taken hostage and all your gear is confiscated” trick. I didn’t want to put a ton more hours in only to find out the game designers arbitrarily changed the rules in un-fun ways later on, so I just stopped playing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/45 "2004-01-29T01:48:13Z")
Oh, and in defence of Lulu and her teddy-bear-fu, it was impossible to do much more than ten points of damage with the thing, even when the rest of your party is dishing out four digits worth of damage with every blow. The point being, she’s a spellcaster, not a fighter, and shouldn’t be engaging in hand-to-hand at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/46 "2004-01-29T01:56:06Z")
> [@Dewey Cheatem Undhow](#): > > But without crates, we would not have the [Crate Review System](http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/39.html), the world’s only completely unbiased review methodology (and the funniest article ever writtin about gaming, bar none). Or the CrateMaster game and its “high score” contest (no link - the results page contains nudity, but you can find it on Google). Grumble. I won the contest but they never sent me a prize. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/47 "2004-01-29T02:09:35Z")
> [@MrVisible](#): > > My little peeve is The Illusion of Choice. > > This is the day you’ve prepared for; this is your destiny. This is why all those bunnies, rats, snakes, birds and bats bit the dust: so that you might triumph over Badness. > > And you do! You wipe up the floor with that Villainous guy. You load up your biggest, nastiest special effects, you team up your characters just right, you anticipate said Badass’ every move, you murderize him. > > And then, he takes your Valuable Doodad anyway. For illustration see Suikoden III, Final Fantasy . . . well most of them since IV at least and, most amusingly Xenogears. Ah, Xenogears where you would routinely pound the living hell out of the enemy only to have the scene progress with them saying “Yeah, that was a pretty good fight. . . well, cya” and then walking out of the room. Occasionally walking out of the room directly _through_ the party. As one of my friends observed while watching someone play the game “This is the worst party ever. If she had tried that with any of our D&D groups _somebody_ would have had the good sense to jump on her back and stab her until she stopped moving.” It’s the totally casual attitude with which they ignore you that really gets me. The idea that everyone is done fighting because they are and the assumption in the games that there’s nothing odd about that. ---
**Author:** ![Bubba\_Ray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bubba\_Ray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bubba_Ray)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/48 "2004-01-29T03:32:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There aren’t enough adjectives in all the world to describe how strongly I disagree with this. _Especailly_ using Baldur’s Gate as an example of how to do it **right**! God, that game sucked. The sequel made some minor tweaks that fixed it, but combat in the first game was down-right unplayable. Dungeons & Dragons is not a real-time game, and I’m sick to death of every D&D computer game that comes down the pike trying to shoehorn it into a real-time system. Bring back turn based! I want RPGs that require me to think in combat, not twitch like an epileptic on a caffeine jag. Amen to that, the click till your mouse explodes thing worked for Diablo since it isnt actually an RPG and doesnt require anything more thinking then where to fire your 200 firebolts per second. Take SW:KotOr now that was a game with turn based fights that did it right, I could at everytime pause the fight and queue up my commands and then lay back and enjoy the pretty cinematics. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_the_CC)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/49 "2004-01-29T04:05:28Z")
Wumpus, you probably should’ve finished that fight. MGS is first and foremost an interactive movie. The MGS games happen to be so exponentially better than any other interactive movie that people are wary of putting them in their rightful category, but they are. The fight was hand to hand for plot reasons I will not divulge here. In games not based around tactics, I am irritated by missions of protection. I know I am far from alone in this. I believe that during the N64’s heyday, you could have started a successful club called People Who Hate Natayla. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/50 "2004-01-29T07:03:20Z")
How about those missions where you cover someone through a section and when you reach the end the Bad Guy kills them anyway? ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/51 "2004-01-29T07:06:17Z")
> [@JDeMobray](#): > > For illustration see Suikoden III, Final Fantasy . . . well most of them since IV at least and, most amusingly Xenogears. > > … > > It’s the totally casual attitude with which they ignore you that really gets me. The idea that everyone is done fighting because they are and the assumption in the games that there’s nothing odd about that. I was thinking about **Suikoden III** when I wrote that! Huzzah! Actually the worst example I’ve seen of Illusionary Choice was Wild Arms III. Pissed me off so bad I quit playing. I love Suikoden, though. I’ve got over a hundred hours into my latest game, and I await the August release of IV eagerly. I’m such a sucker… ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/52 "2004-01-29T07:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, I know, but that’s not really the point. I mean, changing clothes in the middle of a fight is bizarre enough as it is, but the way all your character’s abilities are keyed to her outfit bugs me. If I want Paine to cast Firaga, I have to wait until she changes her hat? Huh? Does she know magic spells, or does the costume know magic spells? I’d rather have the flexibility of having a character be able to use any of her abilities right when she needs them. I like FFX-2 a lot, but I can’t help but feel like I’m spending all this time trying to level up my clothes, which for some vague and unidentifiable reason is not as rewarding to me as leveling up my characters. It was the clothes that knew the spells and the skills. The kid (whatever his name was) said something about how he didn’t know how stable the dress spheres were and they “remembered” things, like the other spheres. And that’s also why Yuna started had that one girls memories and was able to sing the song(she was wearing the dress sphere at the time…) I don’t think they ever explicitly said during the game that the skills were held in the dress spheres, but it seemed like that was the implication. The only thing the characters physically got from fighting was higher HP… ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/53 "2004-01-29T07:43:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > …I can’t help but feel like I’m spending all this time trying to level up my clothes, which for some vague and unidentifiable reason is not as rewarding to me as leveling up my characters. I totally agree, and to some extent this is a problem with many RPGs. Clothes and weapons and such are tools, to be used by characters but not to define them. I really want to see more games where the character’s skill makes a sword deadly, not all the gems and hydraulics and alien technology and ancestor spirits and other doodads you can plug into it. Those things have their place, but it’s easy to go overboard and too many games do. ---
**Author:** ![xayoz306](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bc8723/32.png) [@xayoz306](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xayoz306)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/54 "2004-01-29T08:32:06Z")
I can list a few things in games that piss me off to no end. The include: The Madden comeback AI. Nothing is more frustrating than hplaying a game, and working your ass off to hold the computer to a few yards, and suddenly, the quarterback who had only completed 6 passes for 20 attempts, completes 15 in a row, racks up record yardage, and your carefully protected 7 point lead turns into a 49 point deficit. All in the span of the fourth quarter. The reliance on the side qquest in roleplaying games. These are a pain, especially when they do have nothing to do witrh the main story line. I do know SW:KoToR had sidequests that revealed information about the characters themselves, which did make for interesting game play. First Person Shooters that have no plot. When the concept of the game is to run through various levels killing stuff, with a loose plot, it makes me bored. A game needs to grab m,y attention within the first ten minutes with a plot line that is incorporated in the game play, or I tend to turn it off. ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/55 "2004-01-29T14:38:30Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > TURN BASED COMBAT: Ugh! Didn’t we find a nice alternative to this way back when Diablo came out? Yeesh, it is so stupid. I just attacked, now I sit and wait for everyone else to attack then I can do it again. It was neccesary in older systems, like the NES and SNES because the calculations needed to get everyone’s ready time and so forth would be tricky, but a even a rudimentary version was establishedi n Chrono Trigger! Get with the times, Square. Look at Baldur’s Gate or Neverwinter Nights, see how you can make it fluid and realtime? (I realize it’s still _like_ turn based, but at least it doesn’t look and feel like it!) I _ **SO** _ disagree with you here. I will **NOT** spend my money on a game that only has real time combat. I will occasionally accept a game that has combat you can pause – and set new options, then go back to combat – if it is otherwise a game I like. (For example, I’m finding Neverwinter Nights kind of interesting, although the combat system isn’t my favorite.) But even paused combat is, I feel, just a crutch to satisfy those of us who would really prefer turn-based combat. I’ll buy any and every turn-based RPG out there. I won’t even look at games that need an itchy mouse finger to play. You mention “Diablo”. That’s a prime example – I don’t like Diablo. I won’t play Diablo, or spend my money on it. If only Diablo-like games came out, I would no longer play computer games. (Actually, that would be financial incentive for someone to enter the market with a different type of game, so I’m not worried about it.) Now, there are rooms for both on the shelves – each (turn-based and real-time combat) type of game has players that prefer it, and both will sell. And there are a few people who will buy both. But, by and large, I feel they are for different audiences. And I am most firmly in the “turn-based combat” audience. Therefore, I disagree that it’s a stupid concept in gaming. It is, instead, an available choice, a different flavor that some people like, just as, say, some people like hi-tech settings and others like the medieval settings. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/56 "2004-01-29T16:16:27Z")
I don’t mind puzzle games, but I hate games that rely on stupid, repetitious, non-sensicle puzzles. The **Residen Evil** games are some of my favorites because I love zombies, they have great stories, and set the mood wonderfully. But I get fed up with them really quick because some of the puzzles are just utterly retarded. I can understand needing to search for a super special key to a hidden door to the underground lab…that’s fine. But when I read a guy’s diary and find out that every day he apparently had to make a copy of the key, enter it into a trap door in order to steal the real key in order to get a dog whistle to attract the dog that has another key on it’s collar so they can access a secret trap door to get their access card so they can get into their office kitchen to get their lunch…it’s just fucking ridiculous. Too many times in those games do you have to spend twenty minutes running back and forth between the same two friggin rooms just to do menial tasks. No wonder this place had a breakdown, it would take five hours for anyone to fully enable any kind of fail safe. Also, I’m really sick of action games that play out more like movies than video games. Okay, it’s a bit more of a stealth game, but I watched some friends play **Metal Gear Solid 2** , and of the 45 minutes they were playing, I think they actually only played for about fifteen. The rest of it was movie after movie after gratuitous backstory follow-up…Hey, I enjoy movie sequences as much as the next guy, and storyline is always a plus, but come on. If I wanted to watch a movie, I’d rent a movie, not play a video game. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/57 "2004-01-29T17:31:19Z")
The worst part of MGS was how they put out-of-game stuff into the game. “And don’t even think about using a rapid-fire controller, Snake. I’ll know.” _or_ “Secret…code…on… back of… cd jewel case…” _or_ “What? How?! You must have… used… the second control slot… aaaggghhhh.” Bleh. And yes, I agree that there were way too many cut scenes, too. If I want to watch a movie, I’ll watch a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/58 "2004-01-29T17:43:08Z")
I think Turn based combat in RPG’s has it’s place, primarily with single-player games. But even then it has to be properly done and balanced with other spects in the game. an example of bad turn based combat RPG is “Temple of Elemental Evil”. None of the other apsects of the game are worthy of mention, EXCEPT for the combat, turning the game into little more than a D&D combat simulator. Also, turnbased combat works well for single-player gaming but NOT for multi-player. This is why NWN’s combat system is a turnbased/real time hybrid. Because it’s main purpose is multi-player gaming. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/59 "2004-01-29T17:51:44Z")
You might want to check out [Adventurers](http://www.adventurers-comic.com), which is a comic interpretation of a Final Fantasy type game. (It’s several hundered strips along and is more or less a continuous story, so you may want to jump back to the beginning. A few of his links are broken but you should be able to figure out what page you need to link to.) He has lots of fun with some of the cliches mentioned here, like: Hero: Oh no! The door is blocked by a chair! We have to go around! Sidekick: Or, we could just move the chair… Hero: Move… chair? Sidekick: Why are we searching this guys house? Hero: Look! I found a magic sword in the shower! Mage: And this crystal ball was in toaster. Sidekick: Is everyone around here insane but me? Townsperson: My vase! You broke my vase! Hero: Sorry. I was looking to see if there was anything inside of it. Townsperson 1: So, you just let them rob your house? Townsperson 2: Hello! His sword is bigger than I am! ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/60 "2004-01-29T17:55:31Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > It was the clothes that knew the spells and the skills. The kid (whatever his name was) said something about how he didn’t know how stable the dress spheres were and they “remembered” things, like the other spheres. And that’s also why Yuna started had that one girls memories and was able to sing the song(she was wearing the dress sphere at the time…) I don’t think they ever explicitly said during the game that the skills were held in the dress spheres, but it seemed like that was the implication. The only thing the characters physically got from fighting was higher HP… The kid’s Shinra (named for the evil company from FFVII) and base MP raises as you level, too. The rest is exactly right. The abilities come from the Spheres (or, perhaps more accurately, the interaction of the spheres and the characters). Although, to be honest, Yuna should have White Magic and Rikku Steal (at the very least) inborn, since they had them in FFX. This is the…4th variation of the system they’ve used, IIRC. III, V, Tactics (which I haven’t played yet), and X-2. I can’t comment on Tactics (as, like I said, I haven’t played it), but the other 3 all have external sources for the class abilities, and varying degrees of externalness for them. III, unless you had a crystal piece equipped, you couldn’t use the abilities, period. V, you could learn them yourself, and equip 1 ability native to a crystal other than the one you’re using (Unless you’re using the Mimic Job, in which case you could equip 3 learned abilities). X-2 with the right Garment Grid you can use certain class abilities even without having that Sphere equipped, and once you’ve learned a White Magic spell you can use it outside of combat no matter what sphere you have equipped - temporarily switching spheres, I’d guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352.md?page=4)