# Stupid concepts in video games **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352 "2004-01-27T23:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/81 "2004-01-30T07:26:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Ooh, I just remembered the ultimate example of the Illusion of Choice! The game _Companions of Xanth_, based on the Xanth book _Demons Don’t Dream_. Or the other way around. Now, granted, neither the book nor the game was exactly more than execrable, but… > > The premise of the game is that you, a Mundane (non-magic person) choose a companion native to Xanth (the magic land) to guide and help you through an adventure in Xanth. You’re given your choice of four companions. The first thing that happens in the game is that you’re in a cave, with a choice of four passageways to go through. But your companion always rushes ahead through one of the passageways before you get a chance to choose. And three of the passageways lead to instant death. So you have to choose the companion they wanted you to. Now I remember. Why program 4 different ways to solve puzzles when we can just give you a choice and have only one of them be right? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/82 "2004-01-30T08:07:37Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Now I remember. Why program 4 different ways to solve puzzles when we can just give you a choice and have only one of them be right? I’m going to take off my game-player hat for a moment, put on my professional game developer hat, and comment on this. I, personally, HATE the idea of trying to come up with a segment of a level, or a puzzle, which can be solved more than one way. As I see it, it’s our job to ensure that you, the player, have as fun an experience as possible. We have a limited amount of energy and time to spend doing so. I think it makes much more sense for us to set up a puzzle, or a battle, or a race, or whatever, and make it clever and fun and unique, and tune the crap out of it, and then later on in the level have something else, and tune it, than try to be all things to all people at all times. What’s the point of setting up a really clever and well timed and fun portion of a level if we also set up another way through it, and half the players won’t even get to experience all the work we put into it? Now, one objection to that is that if a player really really really hates a certain type of gameplay, or just gets a mental block and can’t solve a particular puzzle, then they’ll be stuck there forever if there’s no alternate solution. Which is why I also happen to beileve that every game should have a built-in walkthrough. If you really can’t solve a particular puzzle, and try enough times, eventually the game will offer to solve it for you. I’m not sure if any of my coworkers or bosses agree with my philosophy, however ;( ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/83 "2004-01-30T11:51:38Z")
> [@Sir Dirx](#): > > Oh, and if you’re gonna mention webcomics about RPGs, you should check out [RPG World](http://www.rpgworldcomic.com/). I haven’t read Adventurers, but it sounds a lot like this one. _10 hours later_ It’s funny how he started out making fun of RPG clichés and then slowly got drawn in by them. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/84 "2004-01-30T12:34:16Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I’m going to take off my game-player hat for a moment, put on my professional game developer hat, and comment on this. > > I, personally, HATE the idea of trying to come up with a segment of a level, or a puzzle, which can be solved more than one way. As I see it, it’s our job to ensure that you, the player, have as fun an experience as possible. We have a limited amount of energy and time to spend doing so. I think it makes much more sense for us to set up a puzzle, or a battle, or a race, or whatever, and make it clever and fun and unique, and tune the crap out of it, and then later on in the level have something else, and tune it, than try to be all things to all people at all times. What’s the point of setting up a really clever and well timed and fun portion of a level if we also set up another way through it, and half the players won’t even get to experience all the work we put into it? > > Now, one objection to that is that if a player really really really hates a certain type of gameplay, or just gets a mental block and can’t solve a particular puzzle, then they’ll be stuck there forever if there’s no alternate solution. Which is why I also happen to beileve that every game should have a built-in walkthrough. If you really can’t solve a particular puzzle, and try enough times, eventually the game will offer to solve it for you. > > I’m not sure if any of my coworkers or bosses agree with my philosophy, however ;( One of the reasons I enjoy and still play Fallout and Fallout 2 is because I can try different approaches to a puzzle. However, if the choices are to make one excellent portion or a couple or three half-assed portions, yeah, I’ll take an excellent portion of the game every time. I just hope that solving it isn’t dependent on one of my weaker skills. I’m very poor at mapping, for instance, IRL as well as in games. I can’t do jumping segments very well at all now, and so I’m stuck in _Threads of Fate_ at the jumping puzzle. One of the factors that decide whether or not I buy a game (or ask for one as a gift) is the replay factor. I don’t want to just play a game. I want to play it several times, and be able to improve my play each time. Now some specifics about the Final Fantasy series… I’ve played 6, 7, and 8 all the way through, several times each, and enjoyed them. They do have their problems, though. Allowing each weapon or piece of armor to be only used by one or two characters is a MAJOR flaw, in my opinion. I like to be able to swap armor around. I own FF 9, 10, and Tactics, but never finished them. In Tactics I found that looking at the faces was so repugnant that I just couldn’t bear to finish. I don’t insist on having extremely attractive games, but when the faces are so repulsive that I just wince when I have to talk to someone, something’s wrong. I wasn’t enthralled by the storyline, as so many people seem to be. What really killed my interest, though, was the zodiac complications…I always had to consider what signs of the zodiac my spellcaster and spell recipient were born under! Really, how is one supposed to know that about random opponents? I was sort of glad to hear that other people were frustrated by the NPCs as well. I mean, I’m not happy that other people were frustrated, but I was glad to know that it was the game’s fault, not mine, that I couldn’t keep the NPCs alive. In both 9 and 10, I just plain didn’t like the storyline. In 9, particularly, it seemed like I was playing for a few minutes, then getting a movie, then playing for a few more minutes…if I want to watch a movie, I’ll watch a movie. FMVs work best when they’re a rare treat. I’m replaying FF7 right now, and I find it has just enough FMVs. I particularly like the one where Cloud rides a motorcycle to escape the ShinRa building. I think that it really sets a great mood of tension. Too bad that the minigame that follows is so shitty. Another thing that disappointed me in 9 was the card game. I had really enjoyed Triple Triad in 8, so I was looking forward to another card game. I didn’t like having the number of cards limited, however, and I REALLY didn’t like having the cards level up. That was just insane. I gave up on having a really good card collection in that game. As for 10, I’m not a sports fan, and I don’t like sports sim games. So I really don’t like having to play a sports sim game in the middle of my RPG. And I MUST play it, as there’s no other way to get certain items. The ultimate weapon sidequests are just impossibly hard for me as well.\* This is the first time a game has made me seriously consider getting a Game Genie or similar game cheat device. I also found the voice acting in FF10 to be extremely uneven. I liked Auron and Rikku, was neutral on Lulu, and hated Tidus, Yuna, and Wakka. For a young, healthy, successful sports star Tidus was exceptionally whiny. Sure, I played enough of the game to understand the game’s reason for his personality, but that still doesn’t mean I have to like it. I DID like the sphere grid system. In fact, I think that it’s the best character advancement system of all the FF games. It offers a lot of flexibility in training characters, and makes it possible to have a truly customized PC party. One thing that I don’t like about Square games as a whole is the fact that one MUST steal from enemies constantly. Some items are only available through stealing, they won’t be dropped. I think that this is a royal pain. As far as I know, the only Square games that don’t allow stealing as an option are Secret of Mana and Legend of Mana. Maybe Secret of Evermore, too, but I don’t really remember that one as well, since I didn’t play it too much. That was another strike against FF9, I didn’t like the main character being a professional thief. I guess that I just really don’t find it as glamorous as the game designers at Square do. \*Incidentally, while getting all the components for the weapons upgrades in FF8 was hard, I didn’t find it TOO hard. I think that one should have to expend some effort to get the Very Best Weapon, but it shouldn’t be impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/85 "2004-01-30T13:10:08Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > Another thing that disappointed me in 9 was the card game. I had really enjoyed Triple Triad in 8, so I was looking forward to another card game. What most disappointed me about the card game was that it was based on luck not skill. So there’s another concept I hate, replacing skill with luck in the mini games. If I had 8’s card game in 9 I would have been so happy. Of course designing mini games like that with skill in mind means you need to design a strong A.I. Or they can do what they did in X-2 and make this supposedly 2 player game actually 1 player. That was my biggest WTF? moment in the series. What is the opponent doing while you’re playing? ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/86 "2004-01-30T13:42:45Z")
> [@Johnny Bravo](#): > > The worst part of MGS was how they put out-of-game stuff into the game. > > “And don’t even think about using a rapid-fire controller, Snake. I’ll know.” > _or_ > “Secret…code…on… back of… cd jewel case…” > _or_ > “What? How?! You must have… used… the second control slot… aaaggghhhh.” > > Bleh. And yes, I agree that there were way too many cut scenes, too. If I want to watch a movie, I’ll watch a movie. This reminded me of the “instructional” dialogue early on in some Final Fantasy games. “Walk around using the control pad, and talk to people using the A button.” OK… Something else that I haven’t seen mentioned, though it’s somewhat related to the Illusion of Choice: fixed battles where your party is destined to lose because that’s how the story progresses, but you don’t know they’re fixed the first time around, so you use up all of your magic points, finite-use weapons (ammo, etc.), and even ultra-powerful can-only-be-used-once only-one-exists-in-the-entire-game rare items trying to beat the bad guy, only to find out he was impossible to kill anyway! ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/87 "2004-01-30T13:48:15Z")
Oh yeah, most Boss battles really stink. They are quite different for the rest of the game you just played to get their, or involve a gimmick to win them. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/88 "2004-01-30T13:52:49Z")
I’m tired of the whole card game fad. There’s even an RPG in development, Baten Kaitos, that uses cards as an integral part of gameplay - that is, for making attacks and casting magic and such. If I want to play a card game I’ll install Hoyle Card Games, or get some friends for Chez Geek or Munchkin. Hey MaxTheVool, is your company hiring? I’m interested in game development, and I live in the East Bay (San Leandro). ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/89 "2004-01-30T14:36:04Z")
I liked Triple Triad, OK, I LOVED TT, but part of the reason it worked was because it was based mostly on skill. Another reason it worked was because it was something completely new at the time. I DID think that it was very strange that to complete the card quest, you had to play a card game when the love of your life is in a strange coma and you’re trying to get help for her. This was not something that I would normally do. I was so disappointed in FF9 and 10 that I have refused to buy FF X-1 and FF Pretty Princess Dress Me Up. I might buy X-2 if I find it at a very cheap price. But I am just not interested in an online console multiplayer game. A computer is a computer, and a console is a console. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I am also not interested in paying yet another monthly fee. Oh, another thing I hated about FF9…I habitually buy the strategy guide for every RPG that I get, as soon as I get it. I do try to play the game for a while before opening the book, but with Final Fantasy games, a guidebook is a true necessity. However, the FF9 guide book just constantly referred me to the PS online strategy site! I felt that I had been completely ripped off. Oh, and FF9 had at least one bizarre minigame, that jumprope game. I could never get that one. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/90 "2004-01-30T15:31:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Diablo 2 violates most of the linked page’s requisites! Its an action game… and it doesn’t even really start doing that until Act II, when you actually have to use your character abilities and manage your enemies and health wisely. The only reason anyone called it an RPG was because foolish people confuse fantasy with RPG. > [@](#): > > The only one I have liked is Chrono Trigger for the SNES, for some reason, it was ok. Well, Chrono Trigger had an original, engaging plot, allowed you to do some truly cool things, and didn’t contain almost any of the cliches. Actually, it _started_ several of them. > [@](#): > > Utterly stupid items: In FFX there was a girl who fought with a teddy bear…all I’m going to say is OK… Ah, this isn’t a cliche so much as a series-watermark. The Final Fantasy series has had these for along time. Its sort of an in-joke. > [@](#): > > TURN BASED COMBAT: Ugh! Didn’t we find a nice alternative to this way back when Diablo came out? Yeesh, it is so stupid. I rather like it much of the time. Its a nice break from full-on action games, and it make sit much easier to control a full party. > [@](#): > > Especailly using Baldur’s Gate as an example of how to do it right! Baldur’s Gate was an excellent Turn-Based to Real Time adaptation. I assure you, if you take the moment to pause the action, it becomes extremely much better. BG2 added an auto-pause option after every turn. I, for one, am damn glad they didn’t make every character’s turn sequential. It wouldn’t have been as cool or as realistic. They tried it in Pools of Radiance, and it was one reason that game sucked. > [@](#): > > Wandering throught Baldur’s Gate (1) with my boyfriend. We’ve levelled up well, we kick ass all over the screen, we’re headed towards the thieves’ lair so as to knock some heads together in a righteous fashion… You’re talking about Dark Alliance. Baldur’s Gate had no such jumping puzzles cause tyhere was no jumping. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/91 "2004-01-30T15:52:47Z")
Well, as a newly arrived, but huge fan of the newer FF games (I was addicted to FFI, but came back only after my kids got a PS2, and now have 7-X, and will get X-2 when finances allow), I agree with some of the gripes that folks are pointing out. Side-Quests are often ridiculous, and getting ultimate weapons can be next to impossible. However- I am not very good at video games, especially the kind that require coordination or fast-button maneuvers. So RPGs that allow me to substitute patience for actual skill, are great. Turn-Based games are really the only ones that I enjoy any more- even with only 3 characters, it is a pain to coordinate all of them in anything approaching real-time. Hence, my putting down of Freedom Force after the second mission. I am also a HUGE fan of cutscenes…but i realize that this is my own preference. Video games as interactive movies are something that I am very comfortable with. Now, on to my gripes: jumping puzzles- this is not such a problem in 2-d games, but in 3-d? especially in FPS games, where it’s hard to time things right because you can’t see your feet! lack of save points- I personally loved FFX and the fact that you could save very regularly, and that your life, magic, etc. was replenished at save points. Heck, Betrayal at Krondor’s ‘bookmark’ save system was a godsend. swimming. I hate swimming of any sort. games that HAVE to have a game guide to get any enjoyment out of them. Of course, since I discovered [gamefaqs.com](http://gamefaqs.com), this has been less of an issue, but still annoying. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/92 "2004-01-30T16:07:51Z")
> [@Sir Dirx](#): > > Oh, and if you’re gonna mention webcomics about RPGs, you should check out [RPG World](http://www.rpgworldcomic.com/). I haven’t read Adventurers, but it sounds a lot like this one. Heh. There is an RPG World/Adventurers Crossover at one point. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/93 "2004-01-30T16:08:45Z")
Now that I think about it, the very concept of “mana” has always bothered me. It irks the heck out of me that games don’t let you cast infinite spells. Granted, I’m not familiar with the origins of the concept of “mana”, but the way I tend to think about magic is that either someone has supernatural powers or he doesn’t. Allowing for the fact that it’s not very realistic for people to have supernatural powers to begin with, it makes no sense to me to say that someone has supernatural powers but can use them only for a time before he must drink a potion or sleep for the night to replenish them. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/94 "2004-01-30T16:12:54Z")
Forgot to add: that seems to me like saying that Superman can only use his X-ray vision 10 times, or Spiderman can only climb a wall 5 times, then they have to drink a potion before they can do it again. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/95 "2004-01-30T18:58:54Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > Hey MaxTheVool, is your company hiring? I’m interested in game development, and I live in the East Bay (San Leandro). The game market in the bay area is pretty crappy right now. It took me 6 months to find a job, and another of my former coworkers was unemployed for over a year. But if you’re really interested, email me, and I’ll see what useful advice I can provide… ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/96 "2004-01-30T19:06:57Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Now that I think about it, the very concept of “mana” has always bothered me. It irks the heck out of me that games don’t let you cast infinite spells. Granted, I’m not familiar with the origins of the concept of “mana”, but the way I tend to think about magic is that either someone has supernatural powers or he doesn’t. Allowing for the fact that it’s not very realistic for people to have supernatural powers to begin with, it makes no sense to me to say that someone has supernatural powers but can use them only for a time before he must drink a potion or sleep for the night to replenish them. Basically, it’s a plot device to provide some kind of game balance. There has to be a way to keep the mages from being uber powerful too early in the game by implementing a type of econmy saying “Okay, the more poweful things cost more” and you only have X points to spend on them. Or it’s under the theory that Magic requires a certain amount of mental energy and it’s going to take more energy to do more complex things then simple things. In real life, does it take more mental energy to tie your shoes or perform(sans paper and pencil) integal calculas? Eventually, you are going to have to rest your brain after so much of the complicated stuff. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/97 "2004-01-30T20:48:46Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > What really killed my interest, though, was the zodiac complications…I always had to consider what signs of the zodiac my spellcaster and spell recipient were born under! Really, how is one supposed to know that about random opponents? > _…snip…_ > > \*Incidentally, while getting all the components for the weapons upgrades in FF8 was hard, I didn’t find it TOO hard. I think that one should have to expend some effort to get the Very Best Weapon, but it shouldn’t be impossible. Just for your information I completely ignored the zodiac allignments in FF Tactics and still managed to finish the game easily. The thing I didn’t like about it was the plot. I never really did figure out what was going on. \*Really? You’ll have to tell me your secret. I spent nearly 2 hours trying to get all the materials for one of the chararcter’s best weapon. I ended up giving up. ---
**Author:** ![criminalcatalog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@criminalcatalog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/criminalcatalog)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/98 "2004-01-30T21:13:57Z")
Remember when it used to be about beating your high score? Nothing pulls you back in like wanting to “do better the next time”. There are too many games now that you play one time, then decide there’s really no reason to do it again, ever. “I can’t believe I blew fifty bucks on this turd game.” ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/99 "2004-01-31T00:07:35Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > Just for your information I completely ignored the zodiac allignments in FF Tactics and still managed to finish the game easily. The thing I didn’t like about it was the plot. I never really did figure out what was going on. > > \*Really? You’ll have to tell me your secret. I spent nearly 2 hours trying to get all the materials for one of the chararcter’s best weapon. I ended up giving up. Heh. I might have to break FF Tactics out again, just to try it. IF I can stand looking at those damned faces again. Which materials were you having problems with? I remember that I modded some cards for some of the materials, rather than try to hunt monsters for them. In particular, I believe that I modded Malboro cards for tentacles, once I no longer needed them for playing. Malboro cards were my preferred beginning player cards, as they had two fairly strong sides. In the later part of the game, they weren’t nearly as valuable as cards, but they were about the best non-unique cards that one could get in the beginning of the game. I think that I spent more than two hours trying to get all the components for a character’s best weapon, though. I turned a lot of monsters into cards. Carding a monster would give me AP, to level up my GFs, but not XP. Since the monsters levelled up with the characters, I saw little point in levelling up my characters. Levelling up my GFs, however, enabled my characters to have more junctions and abilities, without levelling up the monsters. I also turned monsters into cards and then modded the cards into items to sell. Since I enjoyed playing Triple Triad so much, my SeeD rank would go down, and with it my salary. So selling items from modded cards gave me a nice little side income, just enough to keep me a bit more comfortable. I know that I’m in the minority, but I rather liked the spell-drawing aspect. I knew that if I ran low on spells, that I could hunt up a draw point or monster and draw. I also enjoyed refining spells and items. That part of the game bored my daughter to tears, though. If you want to try to play it again, then I suggest getting the first two GFs from the study console, then hunting along the coast (drawing magic from monsters as you hunt) with Quistis until Quetzacoatl can learn to refine lowlevel magic into midlevel. At the same time Shiva can learn to refine ice magic from items (which you will collect from the monsters along the shore). With these two abilities, you can refine Blizzards into Blizzardas to make quick work of Ifrit. It’s also darned handy to have Cura spells available for casting AND junctioning. Both GFs should learn Boost as well. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352/100 "2004-01-31T00:28:41Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Baldur’s Gate was an excellent Turn-Based to Real Time adaptation. I assure you, if you take the moment to pause the action, it becomes extremely much better. BG2 added an auto-pause option after every turn. I, for one, am damn glad they didn’t make every character’s turn sequential. It wouldn’t have been as cool or as realistic. They tried it in Pools of Radiance, and it was one reason that game sucked. Every time I mention how much I hated the combat in _Baldur’s Gate_, someone _always_ says, “Did you know you could pause when ever you want?” Yeah, I know you could pause when ever you want. (Except when you’re looking at your inventory! Hope you don’t need a potion in the middle of combat, 'cause half your party is going to die while you try to find it!) Combat still sucked, and it sucked because it was in real time, instead of turn based. Targeting area effect spells was impossible, and often suicidal. It was impossible for 1st level mages to survive combat. It was just generally impossible to keep track of six characters in real time combat, even with the pause button. _Baldur’s Gate II_ was better in that your characters started out at a high enough level that they don’t get whacked immediately by a stray arrow or errant spell. Plus, if your main character is a cleric, you start with the Raise Dead spell. I played all the way through _Baldur’s Gate_ and never found a single NPC cleric. I understand that there’s one in there somewhere, but I forget where, and frankly, don’t care, since I’m never playing that game again. Feh. _Baldur’s Gate_ was crap. _Baldur’s Gate **II** _ was great, though. Would’ve been better if they’d just ditched the real-time combat altogether, but I guess you can’t have everything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-concepts-in-video-games/226352.md?page=6)