# Stupid Equestrian Pharmaceutical Tricks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173 "2009-04-24T01:51:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173/21 "2009-04-25T20:25:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I care. I possess the ability to feel empathy for beings outside my species. > > (Which is not to say I’m gonna stop hunting.) You’re hunting horses? Murderer. 😃 I kid. Is joke from ‘Skald is a murderer / Mutantmoose is an idiot’ thread. I like Skald. Please don’t use time machine to kill my grandparents. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173/22 "2009-04-26T04:56:28Z")
Selenium supplementation in horses is a matter requiring careful attention. [Too little in the diet](http://www.buzzle.com/articles/selenium-deficiency-in-your-horse.html), and the animal can suffer a number of nasty consequences, up to and including death: > [@](#): > > Selenium plays an essential role in maintaining a healthy body, including the immune system. Horses with selenium deficiency may show severe muscle cramping, sweating, rapid pulse, brown urine and stiffness, according to Dr. Macarena Sanz, WSU resident veterinarian in equine medicine. According to Dr. Sanz, a horse with severe selenium deficiency can appear in a few different ways. He may be reluctant to walk and sore to the touch. Or he may appear normal but refuses to chew and swallow. > > Selenium-deficient horses can experience compromised immune systems or nutritional muscular dystrophy where the muscles break down. “When the heart is affected, the prognosis is very poor,” she said. Additionally, foals with selenium deficiency can be either weak at birth or normal at first, then unable to stand or nurse. > > The reason foals may be affected is because the broodmare mare transfers selenium to the foal during pregnancy and then again through milk when the foal nurses The amount of selenium in the soil available for forage plants to uptake varies from insufficient for a horse’s nutritional needs all the way over to toxic. When selenium is deficient it can be supplemented in the horse’s feed, but there’s a narrow range of safety. At this point it appears that **Long Time First Time** is correct: the polo ponies received [ten times the prescribed dose of selenium](http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2009/04/selenium_overdose_caused_death.php) in the vitamin/electrolyte cocktail injected into them before the match: > [@](#): > > A chemist at Franck’s Pharmacy in Ocala, Florida added ten times the requested dosage of selenium to the cocktail. It appears this was an error and not the result of foul play. > > [snip] > > Biodyl [the non-FDA-approved injection being duplicated by the compounding pharmacy] is given to high performance horses several days prior to a race or other strenuous event. According to a Biodyl website, this supplement contains vitamin B12 (cyanacobalamin), adenosine triphosphoric acid (ATP), potassium (potassium aspartate hemihydrate), magnesium (magnesium aspartate tetrahydrate) and selenium (sodium selenite). It is administered either in drinking water or by injection into either the muscles (IM) or a vein (IV). > > Anonymous sources told La Nación, the national Argentinian newspaper, that the veterinarian’s prescription requested 0.5 mg of sodium selenite per milliliter of the cocktail, but the chemist added 5 mg, or ten times that amount. According to the National Research Council, a single minimal lethal oral dose of sodium selenite in horses is 3.3 mg/kg, but a fatal injected preparation, such as what these horses received, contains a much smaller concentration. > > [snip] > > Symptoms of selenium poisoning include pulmonary edema, reduced blood pressure, unconsciousness and death – which are consistent with the symptoms observed in the stricken polo horses. I’ve taken the overdose information from a blog rather than a national news site, so take it for what it’s worth; official confirmation is probably awaiting government confirmation. But it makes sense. [Here is a good, thorough rundown on selenium](http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/horse-health/2003/May/03/Veterinary-Topics-A-necessary-poison.aspx) as it affects horses. ETA: My horse gets a selenium supplement because he lives on hay grown in selenium-deficient soil. His grain is supplemented by the mill, but he gets so little (four cups perday) that it’s not enough. The dose I top-dress on his feed is carefully figured (in consultation with my vet) to make up the difference without going too far. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173/23 "2009-04-26T12:55:16Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > How bout you read my post? > > Not approved because it never sought approval. Dude, I wasn’t answering why this specific item WASN’T approved – I was answering the larger question “why _wouldn’t_ \ be approved,” the question actually asked. I can’t imagine what bee got up your bonnet with the “read my post” crap, since I wasn’t replying to you anyway. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173/24 "2009-04-26T13:28:36Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Dude, I wasn’t answering why this specific item WASN’T approved – I was answering the larger question “why _wouldn’t_ \ be approved,” the question actually asked. I can’t imagine what bee got up your bonnet with the “read my post” crap, since I wasn’t replying to you anyway. Have a nice day. But that’s not necessarily the case even if they would submit for approval. There are human drugs that have fatal doses extremely close to the effective dose - lithium is one classic example. FDA approval is a long, expensive, and headache-inducing process, and they may not consider it worth the effort to sell their product in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173/25 "2009-04-26T14:56:50Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > But that’s not necessarily the case even if they would submit for approval. There are human drugs that have fatal doses extremely close to the effective dose - lithium is one classic example. FDA approval is a long, expensive, and headache-inducing process, and they may not consider it worth the effort to sell their product in the US. Not for an equine nutritional supplement, or indeed, a human nutritional supplement. _Generally, manufacturers do not need to register their products with FDA nor get FDA approval before producing or selling dietary supplements_. [http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/supplmnt.html](http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/supplmnt.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173/26 "2009-04-27T20:45:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I care. I possess the ability to feel empathy for beings outside my species. > > (Which is not to say I’m gonna stop hunting.) Don’t get me wrong - I don’t wish for needless pain or suffering for any animal. But if it’s dead, it dead. The OP expressed quite a bit of anger, but it’s just a few horses. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173/27 "2009-04-27T21:58:18Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Don’t get me wrong - I don’t wish for needless pain or suffering for any animal. But if it’s dead, it dead. The OP expressed quite a bit of anger, but it’s just a few horses. Well, it’s just a few horses that died when they didn’t have to die. ☹ They suffered as they died. :mad: This kind of thing can make some people angry, you know? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-equestrian-pharmaceutical-tricks/494173.md?page=1)