# stupid French rioters---"the boss willl make us work" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254 "2006-03-28T15:51:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/81 "2006-03-31T04:42:41Z")
**Martini** , a personal observation, but it seems that what you’re currently working at are the makeshift jobs that support you as you are developing your real career - something dealing with writing, firearms, and the law (lobbyist, store owner, column writing, etc). From the last post, it is obvious that what you’re currently doing _job_wise (and have been doing the last couple of years), is not what you want to do _career_-wise. And that’s OK, it’s part of the investment we have to make in ourselves, especially if you don’t want to punch a time clock. It sucks that other people have had a hand in making this more difficult, but f 'em. You’re the one going places while they are doing nothing but staying home, catering to world-travelers. Btw, I didn’t buy my first house until I was 30 and didn’t have my first child until I was 34. If you’re 24, you’re not exactly behind the curve. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/82 "2006-03-31T04:51:19Z")
You young whipersnappers! Hell, they say 40 is the new 30. So, that would make 24 the new, er, 14. 😛 Plenty of time to re-invent yourself several times over…hell, plenty of time to just wait and see if the worm turns and your skill sets don’t become valuable. For guys like me, well…fuck it I still have time to re-invent myself a time or too if I want too. 40 something is the new 30 something after all. Plus, there is a thread in GD currently about living forever so… 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/83 "2006-03-31T05:34:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > **Martini** , a personal observation, but it seems that what you’re currently working at are the makeshift jobs that support you as you are developing your real career - something dealing with writing, firearms, and the law (lobbyist, store owner, column writing, etc). From the last post, it is obvious that what you’re currently doing _job_wise (and have been doing the last couple of years), is not what you want to do _career_-wise. And that’s OK, it’s part of the investment we have to make in ourselves, especially if you don’t want to punch a time clock. > > It sucks that other people have had a hand in making this more difficult, but f 'em. You’re the one going places while they are doing nothing but staying home, catering to world-travelers. > > Btw, I didn’t buy my first house until I was 30 and didn’t have my first child until I was 34. If you’re 24, you’re not exactly behind the curve. 😉 Thanks for the kind words of encouragement, **JohnT**. I’d say you’re right, too… I’d like to spin it off into more of a career (Other people have, after all!), but it’s a bit difficult with the current anti-gun climate in this part of the world. As for the Law Degree… well, I signed up for it on the theory that “Law Is A Smart Person’s Degree”, but the problem is that it’s rapidly turning into the new Arts degree, which isn’t helping. Still, I’ll sort something out. I usually do… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/84 "2006-03-31T17:07:02Z")
Does anyone else see the similarities between the protests in France today and the protests in the U.K. in the 1980s? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/85 "2006-03-31T18:44:47Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > For guys like me, well…fuck it I still have time to re-invent myself a time or too if I want too. 40 something is the new 30 something after all. Plus, there is a thread in GD currently about living forever so… Sorry, XT, but you’re mistaken. 40 is the new 30 (hence I’m really 26) but to make up the years, we had to redistribute, and after 40 the years get added on. You’re now actually 53. Sorry for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/86 "2006-03-31T18:50:14Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Does anyone else see the similarities between the protests in France today and the protests in the U.K. in the 1980s? Kinda, yeah. But the British economy really did need Thatcher’s changes; it as getting into serious trouble, being so over-regulated you could hardly go to the bathroom without getting approval from three seperate ministries in writing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/87 "2006-03-31T19:20:48Z")
> [@Martini Enfield](#): > > The area I live in is heavily focused on Tourism, and as a result, most jobs are “Casual”- ie, not permanent. > > \ > > I would LOVE a full-time job where I can use the skills I’ve got… Sounds like you need to move. I certainly hope you’re not advocating setting public policy about employment laws based on your desire to live somewhere that doesn’t have the kind of jobs that match your skills. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/88 "2006-03-31T20:52:11Z")
> [@furt](#): > > You’re now actually 53. Sorry for the confusion. ☹ !! Ouch! I didn’t get the memo! 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/89 "2006-03-31T22:01:28Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Heh? How does this have anything to do with my point? The eocnomic effects of outsourcing are well-understood by economists. I don’t claim to have studied the affair, but it works a lot like other trade. Services are commodities. > > And it certainly doesn’t reduce costs. It only reduces costs only when the company the serve was outsourced to provides adequate quality for less money. Which is actually rather rare. > > Lastly, few companies can get away with the kind of holding actions you describe. Outsourcing “core competencies” is rare because it doesn’t usually work. Electronics companies are outsourcing designs left and right. As for cutting costs, that’s the easy part. Quality is an issue, but during negotiations the outsourcee certainly claims high quality. Sometimes they’re right. As an example - and outsourcing is not always overseas - what PC computer company competes on technology today? They all compete on price or channel or perceived quality. They’ve basically outsourced everything to Intel or AMD and Microsoft. They take an Intel design, get the boards made in China or Taiwan, load Windows, slap a label on it and they’re done. > [@](#): > > 1. Never knock the power of market invention. Some markets may have great potential but just don’t exist… yet. Sometimes, products don’t have a good niche until further R&D, or the best market just hasn’t heard about it. I’ve been working on advanced products all my career, but the dot bombs don’t qualify. They did have stupid business models. > [@](#): > > 1. Elasticity of the market has nothing to do with whether or not you can cut prices. Alright, maybe you could make an argument that it allows you to push down quality, but I doubt it has many practical The argument is that this would lead to new jobs. If the money let them cut prices, which grew the market, then the new jobs would be needed to meet the new demand. If the market were inelastic, the price cut would not increase sales, and thus there would be no new jobs. > [@](#): > > 1. None of this has much to do with jobs, either. What I said still holds: companies try to cut jobs to become more competitive. That makes the company more efficient and more economically useful. More people are freed itno the labor markets, lowering the costs for other companies to invest, and the economy as a whole becomes stronger, making new opprtunities to invest possible. There have been studies showing that layoffs are not associated with increased competitiveness. Job cuts when new processes eliminate the need for jobs, yes. But, Southwest, the most competitve airline, is also the airline that hasn’t laid people off. Layoffs are also necessary when a market segment has gone away, or when someone has screwed up and botched a product. > [@](#): > > I think several SAG practices fall into that camp (and it’s dues are pretty rough on new, young actors). I know. I paid the dues for my daughter. But she made them back her first week of work. That she wasn’t trying to live on her acting income helped. ---
**Author:** ![HeelB4Zod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19adc/32.png) [@HeelB4Zod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeelB4Zod)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/90 "2006-04-01T00:45:36Z")
[Ugly American]Hey Frogs! Get the fuck back to work, you lazy pussies. I’m going on vacation to Paris in two weeks![/Ugly American] But seriously, please don’t fuck up my vacation, French kids. I don’t give a fuck whether or not you flush your economy into the toilet. But can you just hold it together from April 12-15? I want so much to be a gracious American tourist, to try to speak the language, not be too loud, spend a lot of money, nod thoughtfully at all the high culture, etc. But it’s a little hard to do all that when the fucking country is paralyzed. So respectfully, I humbly request that you get your shit together and stop this nonsense _tout de suite, s’il vous plait_? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/91 "2006-04-01T14:50:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > As an example - and outsourcing is not always overseas - what PC computer company competes on technology today? They all compete on price or channel or perceived quality. They’ve basically outsourced everything to Intel or AMD and Microsoft. They take an Intel design, get the boards made in China or Taiwan, load Windows, slap a label on it and they’re done. Again, what would be your point? > [@](#): > > I’ve been working on advanced products all my career, but the dot bombs don’t qualify. They did have stupid business models. Some. Some of the ones that crashed sound like potentially good models to me. Some were clearly reaching. What would be your point? [quote] The argument is that this would lead to new jobs. If the money let them cut prices, which grew the market, then the new jobs would be needed to meet the new demand. If the market were inelastic, the price cut would not increase sales, and thus there would be no new jobs. [quote] You misunderstand the argument. I never claimed that new jobs would open up in any one given company/industry, and certainly not in the one that cut the jobs. > [@](#): > > There have been studies showing that layoffs are not associated with increased competitiveness. Job cuts when new processes eliminate the need for jobs, yes. But, Southwest, the most competitve airline, is also the airline that hasn’t laid people off. Southwest also, IIRC, doesn’t have the kind of unionization of other airlines. It’s not carrying the kind of job load most major airlines are. Second,y you still misunderstand the point: competitiveness is only a temporary step. As long as each company is pushing its own costs down as far as possible, competitiveness stays relatively the same over the long haul. Secondly, it still frees up labor for more productive purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/92 "2006-04-01T14:57:16Z")
> [@](#): > > THE SIGHT OF MILLIONS of Frenchmen, predominantly young, demonstrating in deep sympathy and solidarity with themselves, is one that will cause amusement and satisfaction on the English side of the Channel. > > . . . > > Whether they know it or not, the people on the streets in France were demonstrating to keep the youth of the banlieues — who recently so amused the world for an entire fortnight with their arsonist antics — exactly where they are, namely hopeless, unemployed and feeling betrayed. For unless the French labour market is liberalised, they will never find employment and therefore integration into French society. [French students should go back to class to learn some economics](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2110039,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/93 "2006-04-01T16:47:12Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > [French students should go back to class to learn some economics](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2110039,00.html) I dunno. Have you seen what they teach in French economics classes? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/94 "2006-04-02T07:27:52Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Southwest also, IIRC, doesn’t have the kind of unionization of other airlines. It’s not carrying the kind of job load most major airlines are. Second,y you still misunderstand the point: competitiveness is only a temporary step. As long as each company is pushing its own costs down as far as possible, competitiveness stays relatively the same over the long haul. Secondly, it still frees up labor for more productive purposes. That is from improved productivity, and I totally agree. However, for an efficiently run business, giving a tax break does not improve productivity, and should not effect sales or the need for employees (unless the market is very elastic). Similarly, layoffs don’t improve productivity either, unless they are related to dumping a non-productive division. So, as I said at the beginning of this digression, cutting insurance costs probably has no or very little impact on employment, but can increase wages (hah!) or more likely, improve profits. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/95 "2006-04-02T08:27:50Z")
Voyager you are dead wrong on the outsourcing jobs being a bad thing, sure it can sting a little in the short-run, but in the long-run it is beneficial to the economies of both economies. Although foreign workers may work dirt cheap they are generally much less productive than American workers, though I don’t know about the French. And let’s not forget that job outsourcing works both ways. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254/96 "2006-04-02T08:29:18Z")
> [@](#): > > economies of both economies The health of both economies…whoops. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-french-rioters-the-boss-willl-make-us-work/350254.md?page=4)