# Stupid fucks who believe in magic. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202 "2001-04-24T22:59:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/1 "2001-04-24T22:59:27Z")
And I mean the ones who take it literally. They believe it is possible to manipulate the universe to suit them, to make stuff happen, to influence others’ thoughts and so on, by doing goofy rituals and chanting in dead languages and dancing naked around fires and mixing potions and all that other stupid, fucking garbage. You know, the Wiccans and pagans and believers in voodoo and curses and other morons. What the FUCK is wrong with you fucking idiots? We got a guy with a BA in anthropology ( **Freyr** ) who thinks all those ancient peoples he’s been learning about really could do magic! We got a guy who thinks medicine works because he “drew on energies”! (Don’t ask me to explain it, ask him!) Hey, asshole! _Real Magic_ exists only as the title of a stupid book! Cast a spell on ME, dumbasses! (Now, watch 'em make excuses as to why they can’t cast a spell on me. It’ll be because the planets aren’t properly aligned or some other horseshit.) Go here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68538](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68538) to see what I’m talking about. It’s in GD! It oughtta be in MPSIMS 'cause it sure is pointless! ---
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/2 "2001-04-24T23:08:12Z")
Sad news indeed. wish they wouldn’t spread their ignorance here. Why, somebody might actually believe them. Its on the SDMB it MUST be true! ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/3 "2001-04-24T23:15:01Z")
Personally, I don’t see a big difference between discussions in that thread and major beliefs in Christianity or other major religions. Faith is by definition that which can not be defined by Science. Good Faith is when you can accept something that Science can’t prove. Great Faith is when you accept something that contradicts Science. I for one am a man of Science, but I don’t see any reason to insult those who have religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/4 "2001-04-24T23:15:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Stupid fucks who believe in magic. Are you fucking mental, Jab? I believe in Magic. Only the _truly_ ignorant refuse to accept that magic is here, and here to stay. In fact, I’m playing in a sealed-deck tourney this weekend . . . ---
**Author:** ![Mercutio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Mercutio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mercutio)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/5 "2001-04-24T23:16:18Z")
[singing]Do you believe in magic? Well, I hope you dooo…[/singing] Having no religion or believing in another religion does not give you the authority to denounce anyone elses. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/6 "2001-04-24T23:17:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\* > Hey, asshole! _Real Magic_ exists only as the title of a stupid book! > > Cast a spell on ME, dumbasses! (Now, watch 'em make excuses as to why they can’t cast a spell on me. It’ll be because the planets aren’t properly aligned or some other horseshit.) > > Go here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68538](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68538) to see what I’m talking about. It’s in GD! It oughtta be in MPSIMS 'cause it sure is pointless! \*\* Hey, ASSHOLE: Why don’t you go piss on someone else’s belief and faith? What is pointless is your banal rant which demands others prove something works when you haven’t DISPROVED that it does. Fuck you and the goat you rode in on. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/7 "2001-04-24T23:23:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bill H. \* > \*\*Personally, I don’t see a big difference between discussions in that thread and major beliefs in Christianity or other major religions. > > Faith is by definition that which can not be defined by Science. Good Faith is when you can accept something that Science can’t prove. Great Faith is when you accept something that contradicts Science. > > I for one am a man of Science, but I don’t see any reason to insult those who have religious beliefs. \*\* Holy Shit (no pun intended)! Well said. Can I be you for a day? ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/8 "2001-04-24T23:30:48Z")
I agree with you, **jab1** , and salute you for calling out these deluded fools with their hocus-pocus mumbo-jumbo. “Magic works if you believe it.” Bah. Utter nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![seawitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@seawitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seawitch)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/9 "2001-04-24T23:33:34Z")
**Jab1** , I was planning to cast a spell to make you an intolerant fuckdrop, but I see someone beat me to it. Believe whatever you want. I will continue to do the same. [sub]Thanks again to **Nocturne** for the word fuckdrop. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![robgruver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@robgruver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robgruver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/10 "2001-04-24T23:35:10Z")
**jab1** : You have insulted me to no end. Because of _your_ ignorance I am at work shaking like a leaf with anger. Beleif is built on faith. Faith in God, faith in Allah, faith in the Goddess, whatever your choice of religion is. Now you may be an atheist. Atheism takes more faith than most any other religion to belive. I have faith that the power that the Goddess gives me allows me to do things that are not ‘normal’. If you don’t want to have respect for those of other religions who belive different things what’s next? Going to start bashing Republicans because your a Democrat or vice versa? Perhaps start bashing gays because you are straight? If you want to argue, then fine, but at least do it with some semblance of intellegence. You don’t have to belive in anything. You can sit there and cuss and scream about all those pagans over there in GD, but you know what? You don’t matter to me which is why I won’t cast a spell on you. You are nothing more than a small speck of dust in the eye, only to be washed out. You are the slight annoyance of a piece of chewed gum on the bottom of my shoe to be picked out with a stick. Go away **jab1**. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/11 "2001-04-24T23:40:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\*You know, the Wiccans and pagans and believers in voodoo and curses and other morons. \*\* You mean other morons, like maybe the ones who believe Jesus Christ turned water into wine? Or that He walked on water? That sounds like magic to me. I hardly think that declaring one’s religious beliefs is spreading ignorance. I see by your sig you don’t believe in religion (at least Christian religion, but your OP pretty much denounces other religions as well), which is your right. But no one pisses on your beliefs for it. No one attacks you for following science and asks you to justify your belief in evolution. And how much of science is proven fact and not just theory? The Big Bang is theory, yet accepted as fact. Evolution is theory, yet taught as fact. (I know some are going to get huffy about that statement, but when you get down to brass tacks, it is a theory.) No one knows for sure how the world got to be the way it is today. Everyone has their own ideas. And _ **no one** _ has the right to piss on anyone else’s sincere religious beliefs, regardless how ridiculous it seems to you. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/12 "2001-04-24T23:56:05Z")
**robgruver** : > [@](#): > > Because of your ignorance I am at work shaking like a leaf with anger. Well, to be perfectly honest, it’s because you have chosen to be angry, not because of anything Jab said. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/13 "2001-04-25T00:07:08Z")
I did write out a somewhat long, sneering post that more or less agreed with **jab1**. After reading it over, I realized that it could be cut down to two ideas: Religions such as Christianity and Judaism and others promote a way of life. They tell you how to live your life so that you will be rewarded in the end. Religions such as the one **robgruver** follows, however, is different than those religions. Why? Because its followers claim that just because they believe, just because they have faith, they can perform superhuman feats. Also, rob states in the GD thread that not only can they do these things, they don’t have to use them. Something about this doesn’t wash with me. **robgruver** , I’m sure the faith you follow has other things that are similar to more mainstream religions (codes of ethics and the like) and this is but one facet, but it is a very suspect facet to skeptics. My own idea about this matter is that what people call “magic” is simply science that they don’t understand. It may be perfectly possible to do some things that are regarded as magic, we simply haven’t found out the scientific reasoning behind it yet. ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/14 "2001-04-25T00:07:29Z")
> [@](#): > > And no one has the right to piss on anyone else’s sincere religious beliefs, regardless how ridiculous it seems to you. Yeah, they do. We have the right to make fun of anyone’s anything. For instance, your mother is a cow. It might not be nice, but you always have the right. Also, evolution is a theory and is taught as a theory. It’s not scientists’ fault that people don’t understand what a theory is. Scientists call something a THEORY if there’s an amazing amount of evidence to back it up, ie Theory of Gravity, Theory of Evolution. It means, almost certainly true, but we can never be sure. What normal people call a theory, scientists call a hypothesis. Your mother is probably not a cow. –John ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/15 "2001-04-25T00:07:57Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by robgruver \* Atheism takes more faith than most any other religion to belive. [QUOTE] Ya know, I could give a hairy goats scrotum about what other people believe, but you’re just way off the fuckin’ mark here, buddy. One, atheism is not a religion. Two, atheism does not require faith. As for the rest of your argument, well, as I said before: I could care less. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/16 "2001-04-25T00:10:26Z")
Damn vB! ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/17 "2001-04-25T00:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robgruver \* > \*\ ***jab1** : You have insulted me to no end. Because of _your_ ignorance I am at work shaking like a leaf with anger. \*\* I don’t think I’ve ever read anything on the internet that made me shake with rage. Perhaps in the future you might want to stay out of the Pit. I mean this is the place on the STMB where people says things specifically to piss others off. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Beleif is built on faith. Faith in God, faith in Allah, faith in the Goddess, whatever your choice of religion is. Now you may be an atheist. Atheism takes more faith than most any other religion to belive. \*\* I disagree. It doesn’t take much faith to not believe in something that can’t be proven. I don’t believe in Unicorns or fire breathing dragons does that mean I have more faith then you? > [@](#): > > \*\* > I have faith that the power that the Goddess gives me allows me to do things that are not ‘normal’. \*\* And some people wear tin-foil hats so alien satellites can’t read their mind. It doesn’t make them any less kooky. > [@](#): > > \*\* > If you don’t want to have respect for those of other religions who belive different things what’s next? Going to start bashing Republicans because your a Democrat or vice versa? Perhaps start bashing gays because you are straight? \*\* What makes your beliefs deserving of respect? Granted I’ll tolerate your beliefs because they’re not doing anything to harm me or any other person other then perhaps yourself. > [@](#): > > \*\* > If you want to argue, then fine, but at least do it with some semblance of intellegence. You don’t have to belive in anything. You can sit there and cuss and scream about all those pagans over there in GD, but you know what? You don’t matter to me which is why I won’t cast a spell on you. You are nothing more than a small speck of dust in the eye, only to be washed out. You are the slight annoyance of a piece of chewed gum on the bottom of my shoe to be picked out with a stick. Go away **jab1**. > \*\* Funny how such a slight speck of dust, which doesn’t matter to you, can cause you to shake with rage. Heh heh heh, kinda funny ain’t it? > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Cruncy Frog_\*\* > > I see by your sig you don’t believe in religion (at least Christian religion, but your OP pretty much denounces other religions as well), which is your right. But no one pisses on your beliefs for it. No one attacks you for following science and asks you to justify your belief in evolution. And how much of science is proven fact and not just theory? \*\* Sure, believing in some supernatural being that you can’t observe or measure is exactly the same as accepting scientific theories. I believe Unicorns are real which is just as valid as me accepting the theory of evolution as being valid. > [@](#): > > \*\* > And no one has the right to piss on anyone else’s sincere religious beliefs, regardless how ridiculous it seems to you. \*\* Bullshit. Every individual has the right to piss on any idea or belief which they disagree with. That’s what freedom of expression is all about. You’re free not to pay attention of course. Marc ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/18 "2001-04-25T00:20:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mercutio \* > \*\*Having no religion or believing in another religion does not give you the authority to denounce anyone elses. \*\* Having a religion or believing in a religion does not give one authority to denounce those who do not have religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/19 "2001-04-25T00:21:05Z")
Some quotes from the [referenced thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68538). **robgruver** > [@](#): > > …in the simplest terms Magic is defined as altering reality. To define it better, Magic is an extension of faith. > > We have faith that when we turn on our TV it will work, that our car will start or our computer will connect to the internet. Are these things Magic? No, but they once were. I belive (and those are the two most important words when talking about religious issues) that human ingenuity is Magic. The ability to create something out of nothing. We, as humans, all do it to one degree or another. Artists, inventors, pagans. This is utter nonsense. Magic is defined so broadly as to be completely meaningless. **robgruver** > [@](#): > > What are the limits of magic. Can we Levitate,fly around,ect, or can we just simply affect another persons state of being? > > If you mean this in the literal sense, no. I cannot will myself to fly or levitate or grow ten feet tall and bullet proof, but I can go on a plane, a hovercraft or be the subject of some bizzare genetic engineering. > > Here is a good example: If you are ill, I can give you medicine and draw upon the energies of the world around you and the energies that I hold inside of myself to make you better. Does the medicine help? Of course. Does my drawing of the energies help? I belive so. > > If magic is used upon one who does not beleive in it’s existence,will it work? > > Using the example above, if you did not belive that me drawing out the energies would help, then no it would not work, but the same goes for the medicine. A reverse placebo effect so to speak. Magic is in the mind, and the heart. Sounds like snake oil to me. **Freyr** > [@](#): > > From anthropology, I’ve learned that every culture practices or has belief in some form of magic. Even in our scientific western society, there are magical forms. The miracle of Transsubstanitiation is one. The miracle cures of diseases; cancers going into remission after long hours of prayers are another. Magic is everywhere! Again, too vague a definition. And if you make claims of the efficacy of magical cures, you’d better be able to back them up with more than “well, I believe it worked”. **robgruver** > [@](#): > > The reality that we live in now does not allow you to levitate or throw fireballs. This reality is based on humanities view of the world. Humanity says we cannot fly without help, or throw fireballs without some sort of propellant. > > My teacher (when I first got into Wicca) asked me one day to move a small pebble from one side of a table to another. Being as we were talking about Magic earlier I tried and tried to move it with my mind. I spent 15 minutes staring at this rock trying to get it to move. As you can guess, it did not move. > > I was frustrated. My teacher said “Now watch as I move the pebble.” He picked it up with his hand and moved it to the other side of the table. I was pissed. “What does this have to do with Magic!” > > He said, “Everything. Why do the impossible when it is just as easy to move it with your hand.” > > To answer your question. Yes, it is possible to move a stone, throw fireballs, or levitate without help. But why would you want to when it is so much more easier other ways. As far as I can tell from this, now **robgruver** is denying the existence of magic. **Freyr** > [@](#): > > Yes, Paganism does use magic, but so does every religious system that I know of. If you want an example of magic within a Christian context, go to your local Catholic or Orthodox Church during a High Holiday (say Easter or Christmas Eve) and you’ll see some intricate magical workings. > > The point I’m making here is that magic is NOT the point of Paganism. Magic is a tool for communicating with the Gods or for personal and spiritual development. It is a tool like a hammar is a tool for building a house. It is a means to achieve a goal, not the goal itself. > > In Paganism, magic is highly visible, we use it to communicate with the Gods and to work our will, both on ourselves and the world around us. Within the Judeo/Christian context, magic is seen as divine intervention rather than the working of the individuals. > > Magic, as practiced by Pagans is not the glitter and glow one sees on a movie screen or something to be thrown around like characters in a role-playing game. It’s part of the subtle, poetic flow of the Universe and takes practice to learn to use and manipulate. Magic is not a toy or a game. Careful! Don’t jostle the magician! It looks here like magic is nothing but ceremony, like the pomp and circumstance of a catholic high mass. If that’s the case, what’s the point? It looks to me like you magicians **do** believe in magic for its own sake, and then wrap yourselves in this “magic as legitimate religion” argument whenever anybody calls you on it. I’ve got no problem with people having religion. It’s the claim that religious belief (or magic) is a viable alternative to medicine and science in general that bothers me. ---
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/20 "2001-04-25T00:25:21Z")
**Jaw drops open from MGibson’s witty retort** A perfect 10! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202.md?page=2)