# Stupid fucks who believe in magic. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202 "2001-04-24T22:59:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/21 "2001-04-25T00:28:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > **What is pointless is your banal rant which demands others prove something works when you haven’t DISPROVED that it does.** It’s impossible to prove a negative. Therefore, the burden of proof is on those who say magic exists. You haven’t done it. All you’ve told us is that you believe in it. Well, I believe monkeys will fly out of my butt before you prove wicca or paganism is real. > [@](#): > > \*\*Fuck you and the goat you rode in on. \*\* You want to fuck me AND your mother? **Kamandi** , I like you and your name. Jack Kirby was my favorite comic-book artist. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/22 "2001-04-25T00:30:34Z")
_sigh_ I knew this would happen. \*\*Jab1 wrote: You know, the Wiccans and pagans and believers in voodoo and curses and other morons. What the FUCK is wrong with you fucking idiots? We got a guy with a BA in anthropology (Freyr) who thinks all those ancient peoples he’s been learning about really could do magic! We got a guy who thinks medicine works because he “drew on energies”! (Don’t ask me to explain it, ask him!)\*\* If you would kindly point out where I ever made these claims, I’ll happily retract them. **Hey, asshole! Real Magic exists only as the title of a stupid book!** Yes, it’s a book dealing with magic. If you’d bother to read it, you might have learned something about the subject. But since you’re already and all-knowing Atheist, actually researching a topic is a little beneath you, isn’t it? **Jab1** , I actually thought you were one of the better people here. I use to have respect for people such as yourself. I thought that even though we had different beliefs, we could still respect each other as people; to agree to disagree. Well, so much for that. I realise you’re no better than people like **FriendofGod**. Whoops, strike that. You’re worse than ole **Foggie**! **Foggie** , for all of his faults (as I preceived them) still had the decency to not insult my faith simply because he disagreed with it. He thinks I’m bound for hell several times over simply because of what I am and what I practice, but at least he didn’t insult me simply because my faith is different from his. You’re nothing but scum, **Jab1** and may the karma you create from this posting visit you 3 times 3 times 3. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/23 "2001-04-25T00:32:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by seawitch \* > **Jab1, I was planning to cast a spell to make you an intolerant fuckdrop, but I see someone beat me to it.** The only thing I cannot tolerate is ignorance. The only person I cannot tolerate is one who promotes ignorance. > [@](#): > > **Believe whatever you want. I will continue to do the same.** In other words, you will keep your mind closed to reality and wallow in fantasy and delusion. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/24 "2001-04-25T00:36:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\* > You haven’t done it. All you’ve told us is that you believe in it. Well, I believe monkeys will fly out of my butt before you prove wicca or paganism is real. > /B] The burden of proof is on you to disprove. Just because you don’t believe does not mean I have to prove it is real, you have to prove that it isn’t. Haven’t you ever been in debate? You have to prove the opposition wrong, not the other way around. PS: I can do remarks on my mother that would make your tiny pointed head stand on end. I doubt you can outdo me. Your remark was pathetic. But, whatelse should I expect from an egocentric blow hard who wants everyone else to do his work for him? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/25 "2001-04-25T00:38:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\*The only thing I cannot tolerate is ignorance. > > The only person I cannot tolerate is one who promotes ignorance. > > In other words, you will keep your mind closed to reality and wallow in fantasy and delusion. \*\* Criticizing someone’s faith and belief without proof is massively ignorant. You must hate yourself a great deal. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/26 "2001-04-25T00:44:28Z")
Heh, it all really depends on what your definition of magic is. Most include the words “its impossible” and not much else. I honestly can’t see the diffrence between this thread and the one titled “I am not a homophobe, but” except Richardgsubs was politer at first. But, if you like to be ignorant thats your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Blackclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@Blackclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackclaw)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/27 "2001-04-25T00:50:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Stupid fucks who believe in magic. > > Are you fucking mental, Jab? > > I believe in Magic. Only the _truly_ ignorant refuse to accept that magic is here, and here to stay. > > In fact, I’m playing in a sealed-deck tourney this weekend . . . \*\* Ooooh! So they hand you the deck when you get there? What colors do you normally play? _I normally don’t hijack threads but I have little concern for the OP’s feelings._ Avast ya scruvy dogs! This thread has been boarded! Prepare to change topics! -Blackclaw the thread pirate ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/28 "2001-04-25T00:52:54Z")
\*\*Kamandi wrote: I’ve got no problem with people having religion. It’s the claim that religious belief (or magic) is a viable alternative to medicine and science in general that bothers me.\*\* Can you please point where I, or any of the other Pagans on this board have ever made this claim? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/29 "2001-04-25T00:54:07Z")
It’s interesting to me, **jab** , (and **MGibson** ) that you’ve chosen to ignore **seawitch** ’s comment: > [@](#): > > \*\*I think of it in terms of the subjective nature of reality - often, your world is what you believe it to be. > > The simplest spell I know is one people unwittingly use all the time; if you think your life sucks, it does. Change that belief, and you can change your reality. Once you realize the power is that basic, you can learn to use it in other ways. Just be careful what you wish for, for you will surely get it…\*\* This, to me, is the essence of “magic,” however one chooses to further define it. Also, have you been to any sort of ritual? I ask because I only recently attended my first, and was amazed at the amount of power (bear with me) raised in the room - _because_ everyone in the room was focusing on raising it. In some ways, that power is not unlike the energy raised at a really good rock concert, at least in my very subjective experience of both. This, also, is a form of magic, for once that energy is raised it can then, easily, be redirected into the belief (or exercise) of one’s choice. Call it the power of positive thinking if that makes you more comfortable. I’ll continue to call it magic; I’m comfortable with that label. Also, as far as the rituals go - they’re a reminder that the world turns, and that we humans are only a part of its cycles. And frankly, I’d rather engage in a pagan ritual than go to Catholic Mass (which is just another form of ritual, after all). From what I’ve experienced, no matter how serious they are the pagans will still manage to make the situation uplifting. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/30 "2001-04-25T00:57:13Z")
**jab1** , I’m not religious, not a Christian, nor practice anything to do with Wicca. Neither am I an atheist – I’m still making up my mind. But having a go a people’s faiths and culture is troll material. The last refuge of a troll is “But I’ve got freedom of expression!” Of course, you have indeed. But your founding fathers surely didn’t think that would authorise Nazi party marches through American suburbia, past synagogues, or your declarations in this thread. Why are you sounding so angry about the “fantasies and delusions”? And how do you know they _are_ such? ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/31 "2001-04-25T00:57:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > > \*\*You know, the Wiccans and pagans and believers in voodoo and curses and other morons. \*\* > > You mean other morons, like maybe the ones who believe Jesus Christ turned water into wine? Or that He walked on water? That sounds like magic to me.\*\* If, by that, you mean that it’s equally as moronic, you’re right. > [@](#): > > **But no one pisses on your beliefs for it. No one attacks you for following science and asks you to justify your belief in evolution.** How the hell did you type that with your head up your ass so far? Were you looking out through your navel? Scientific belief and evolution in particular is under constant, daily attack. The fact that even ONE state board of education has seriously considered to allow Biblical creationism to be taught alongside evolution should tell you that evolution IS under attack. And [this article](http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/09/21/evolution.enn/index.html) says that one-third of all public schools do not teach evolution _at all_. According to the professor that graded the states, only ten got As, only 14 got Bs, 7 got Cs, 6 got Ds and a whopping 12 states got Fs in teaching evolution. Kansas got F-. > [@](#): > > **The Big Bang is theory, yet accepted as fact. Evolution is theory, yet taught as fact. (I know some are going to get huffy about that statement, but when you get down to brass tacks, it is a theory.) No one knows for sure how the world got to be the way it is today. Everyone has their own ideas.** In science, a theory is a well-founded explanation for a set or series of facts. A fact is not an explanation; an explanation is not a fact. But you can’t have a GOOD explanation without facts. You can, however, have ignorant, foolish dumb-ass explanations without facts. Did you go to school in Alabama? There, the textbooks say that evolution is theory, not fact. Madness! > [@](#): > > And _ **no one** _ has the right to piss on anyone else’s sincere religious beliefs, regardless how ridiculous it seems to you. The First Amendment says I do. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/32 "2001-04-25T00:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\*Criticizing someone’s faith and belief without proof is massively ignorant. You must hate yourself a great deal. \*\* Now Hastur, let’s be fair. If your quote is true, there is a whole lot of ignorance being traded here. I mean, I wonder what would happen if I pulled up a few Christian bashing threads and checked to see who posted in them? Think we’d find some of these posters? ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/33 "2001-04-25T01:03:17Z")
The first amendment is actually not applicable to a forum. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/34 "2001-04-25T01:04:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Saint Zero \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > > \*\*Criticizing someone’s faith and belief without proof is massively ignorant. You must hate yourself a great deal. \*\* > > Now Hastur, let’s be fair. If your quote is true, there is a whole lot of ignorance being traded here. I mean, I wonder what would happen if I pulled up a few Christian bashing threads and checked to see who posted in them? Think we’d find some of these posters? > > \*\* Well, some people have to piss on any and every type of belief, no matter what it is. It’s sort of pathetic really. I’ve posted in a few Christian threads, but my issue is with the believers who can be pills, not what deity they believe in, or that in certain sects they believe that if prayer doesn’t work to heal, then the person was fated to die. It isn’t my place to tell anyone what to believe, but I can say that I don’t agree. As can anyone. Jab1 is just a vicious jerk. Huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/35 "2001-04-25T01:06:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Saint Zero \* > \*\* > Now Hastur, let’s be fair. > \*\* I don’t believe in fair. Fair strikes me as something children believe in when they have a far simpler concept of the universe. Things happen for which there is no explanation or reason, like Jack Dean Tyler. That it isn’t right is one thing, but that it is or isn’t ‘fair’ is another. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/36 "2001-04-25T01:06:55Z")
You know jab, I used to like you. But this pissed me off. You’re right, you can piss and rant and call all of us idiots. Go right ahead. But in all honesty, WHO THE FUCK ARE WE HURTING! No one. You’re the one who looks ignorant and rude here. Nice job. Even the people over at the Pizza Parlor are nicer, and most of them think I’m going to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/37 "2001-04-25T01:15:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > > **You mean other morons, like maybe the ones who believe Jesus Christ turned water into wine? Or that He walked on water? That sounds like magic to me.** > > If, by that, you mean that it’s equally as moronic, you’re right.\*\* Yet you steered clear of bashing the beliefs of Christians, Jews, etc in your OP. Why is that? > [@](#): > > \*\*Scientific belief and evolution in particular is under constant, daily attack. \*\* You simply misunderstood my intention there. I meant it’s not under attack on this message board. > [@](#): > > \*\*In science, a theory is a well-founded explanation for a set or series of facts. A fact is not an explanation; an explanation is not a fact. But you can’t have a GOOD explanation without facts. \*\* Yes, I know how science works, having studied anthropology, chemistry, physics, and astronomy. I’ve read Cosmos by Carl Sagan and A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking. I’m not just talking out of my ass, you understand. I’ve studied the subjects I speak of. I wasn’t trying to say that these things aren’t true, just they it hasn’t been _proven_, meaning that these ideas which are held so dear may be proven wrong one day. I’m not saying weither side is right or wrong in this respect (evolution, Big Bang, etc), just that we should keep an open mind. > [@](#): > > And _ **no one** _ has the right to piss on anyone else’s sincere religious beliefs, regardless how ridiculous it seems to you. > [@](#): > > \*\*The First Amendment says I do. \*\* The First Amendment also grants Freedom of Religion. How do you justify persecuting a religious belief using the same Constitutional Amendment that grants freedom to practice that religion? ---
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/38 "2001-04-25T01:20:00Z")
Actually, in a way, I think Jab1 was justified to rant the way he did. Why? Well, If you go to the home page of the Straight Dope, you will see the words “fighting Ignorance since 1973”. I would say that spouting off things that are so unproven that they are laughed at by anybody with some reasoning skills, and doing so in a way that they are hinted as being real things, is ignorance. And since this board is here to fight ignorance, and the pit is here to bitch about people who piss us off, he is justified and and in his full rights to post this topic. Is he ignorant for feeling the way he does? I am not qualified to say that, I certainly do not think he is any less ignorant than those who believe in some “magical force” without any firm backing. Was it harsh, and mean, and written with the intention to hurt other peoples feelings, is it biased? Yes, but this is the FUCKING PIT people. If you want warm and fuzzy go to IMHO or MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/39 "2001-04-25T01:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BayleDomon \* > Religions such as Christianity and Judaism and others promote a way of life. They tell you how to live your life so that you will be rewarded in the end. > > Religions such as the one **robgruver** follows, however, is different than those religions. Why? Because its followers claim that just because they believe, just because they have faith, they can perform superhuman feats.\*\* In Mark 16:17&18, Jesus said those who believe in Him will be able to cast out devils, speak in new tongues, safely hadle venomous snakes, drink poison without being harmed and heal with a touch. > [@](#): > > \*\*My own idea about this matter is that what people call “magic” is simply science that they don’t understand. \*\* I’ll go along with that. What pisses me off are those who refuse to understand it and foolishly try to merge the two and try to convince others that he has it right! (A “Techno” Pagan? You GOT to be kiddin’ me! :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202/40 "2001-04-25T01:27:20Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by jab1 \* \*\* > [@](#): > > I’ll go along with that. What pisses me off are those who refuse to understand it and foolishly try to merge the two and try to convince others that he has it right! (A “Techno” Pagan? You GOT to be kiddin’ me! :rolleyes: ) \*\* Well, now that we have our own half-assed version of James Randi, DISPROVE IT. Roll your obnoxious eyes from the back of your smug head and come up with evidence that it DOESN’T work. Then try and disprove the ghosts in this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68540](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68540) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-fucks-who-believe-in-magic/63202.md?page=3)