# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 112
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2221 "2013-06-02T23:41:40Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I wondered as much; still, it suggests at least some people in Britain would like to have handguns again. Not really the larger question, though, is it? True enough, some of them might approve a lifting of the ban. Does that mean they would like to emulate America in regards to guns? Would “Hey, let’s be just like the Americans and their guns!” be a popular slogan? Or would it cause people to speak in soothing tones and back away slowly, glancing around for the nearest exit. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2222 "2013-06-03T00:22:14Z")
Why would anyone want to be like Americans and their guns anyway? Everyone brags they’re ready to stop crime but the number of gun owners who do is right up there with the number of people who get bopped on the head by meteors. Mostly you get drunk accidents & suicides. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2223 "2013-06-03T05:27:44Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Why would anyone want to be like Americans and their guns anyway? Everyone brags they’re ready to stop crime but the number of gun owners who do is right up there with the number of people who get bopped on the head by meteors. > > Mostly you get drunk accidents & suicides. Putting aside the suicides, the accidents probably don’t outnumber the incidence of preventing crime. The number of people who get accidentally killed by guns are about twice as frequent as people who get hit by lightning. The number of criminals who get killed by civilian who have guns is a similar number. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2224 "2013-06-03T11:44:34Z")
> [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > The number of people who get accidentally killed by guns are about twice as frequent as people who get hit by lightning. We’ve just done this. Literally just a few months ago you tried to compare firearms incidents to lightning strikes in a way that was favorable to firearms. I did note of course your deceitful attempt to compare all lighting strikes to fatal firearms injuries. However, a more honest representation is as follows: US annual number of people killed by lightning: 26 (2011, per WISQARS). US annual number of people killed by accidental firearms injuries: 606 (2010, per WISQARS) US annual number of people injured by lightning strikes: 400 (est. average, per [What Is Lightning Crotch Pain During Pregnancy?](http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/a/lightning-strikes.htm)) US annual number of people injured by accidental firearms incidents 14,675 (2011, per WISQARS) Now, note that neither of those two pairs of numbers represents a ratio of 2. Here, by the way, is the 20th installment of GunFAIL: [GunFAIL XX](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/01/1211536/-GunFAIL-XX) Note that this week’s update includes a 2 year old who gets to wear a “ **Lumpy** says: ‘Shit happens’!” t-shirt at his funeral, and an incident in which a woman attending a 3 year old’s birthday party was shot in the arm by someone at a gun range over a mile away. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2225 "2013-06-03T14:26:28Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > We’ve just done this. Literally just a few months ago you tried to compare firearms incidents to lightning strikes in a way that was favorable to firearms. I did note of course your deceitful attempt to compare all lighting strikes to fatal firearms injuries. However, a more honest representation is as follows: Yes we did. We also concluded that you don’t know how to read. I’m not comparing firearm deaths with lightning deaths. I am comparing firearm deaths with lightning strikes. There’s nothing decietful about it unless you don’t know how to read.:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > US annual number of people killed by lightning: 26 (2011, per WISQARS). > US annual number of people killed by accidental firearms injuries: 606 (2010, per WISQARS) > > US annual number of people injured by lightning strikes: 400 (est. average, per [What Is Lightning Crotch Pain During Pregnancy?](http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/a/lightning-strikes.htm)) > US annual number of people injured by accidental firearms incidents 14,675 (2011, per WISQARS) > > Now, note that neither of those two pairs of numbers represents a ratio of 2. US annual number of people killed by accidental firearms injuries: 606 (2010, per WISQARS)::US annual number of people injured by lightning strikes: 400 You’re right, its closer to 1.5 than 2 but why you would complain about that? The fact remains that there are still very few accidental gun deaths every year and there are many more people who use a gun for self defense than people who get bopped on the head by a meteor. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2226 "2013-06-03T14:44:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yes we did. We also concluded that you don’t know how to read. > > I’m not comparing firearm deaths with lightning deaths. I am comparing firearm deaths with lightning strikes. There’s nothing decietful about it unless you don’t know how to read.:rolleyes: It is deceitful, because you know that comparing the same outcome (deaths) from the two mechanisms would show a greater disparity than the factor of 2 you prefer. So you intentionally compare non-fatal incidents for lightning with fatal incidents for firearms. When you compare apples to apples, you find that there are about 23 times as many accidental deaths in the US from firearms as there are from lightning strikes, or about 37 times as many nonfatal firearms injuries as there are nonfatal lightning strikes to humans in the US. I’ll leave it to others to come to their own conclusions about your honesty and integrity. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2227 "2013-06-03T14:51:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **I did note of course your deceitful attempt to compare all lighting strikes to fatal firearms injuries.** > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not comparing firearm deaths with lightning deaths. I am comparing firearm deaths with lightning strikes. There’s nothing decietful about it unless you don’t know how to read.:rolleyes: Really, DA? Really? Someone identifies the _exact point_ you’re making and then explains why it’s irrelevant, and your rebuttal is to claim that they didn’t grasp the point you were making? Who’s got the reading comprehension problem here? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2228 "2013-06-03T14:55:51Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > and an incident in which a woman attending a 3 year old’s birthday party was shot in the arm by someone at a gun range over a mile away. To be fair, she could just as well have been injured by a pool over a mile away. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2229 "2013-06-03T15:02:28Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > To be fair, she could just as well have been injured by a pool over a mile away. That’s a helluva long way to throw a pool. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2230 "2013-06-03T15:20:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That’s a helluva long way to throw a pool. Obviously you don’t throw pools. You have to use a trebuchet, or something. But the point stands: she could have been struck by a falling pool, or bucket or knife or rope or baseball bat or a falling alcohol too. Nothing about someone shooting a person at a toddler’s birthday party a mile away should suggest anything about the safety of gun strokers. Remember, their are four weird tricks that prevent these kind of things from happening. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2231 "2013-06-03T15:23:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Obviously you don’t throw pools. > > You have to use a trebuchet, or something. > > But the point stands: she could have been struck by a falling pool, or bucket or knife or rope or baseball bat or a falling alcohol too. Nothing about someone shooting a person at a toddler’s birthday party a mile away should suggest anything about the safety of gun strokers. > > Remember, their are four weird tricks that prevent these kind of things from happening. I can’t remember: is the first one “assume every pool is full” or “assume every pool is empty”? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2232 "2013-06-03T15:29:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Remember, their are four weird tricks that prevent these kind of things from happening. Are these like the “Three questions that will make any women have sex with you”? Because I’m never clicking one of \*those \*ads again. It turns out the questions are: 1. Will you have sex with me? 2. How about if I give you a million dollars? 3. Okay, what if I agree to put the knife away and let you go afterwards? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2233 "2013-06-03T15:57:45Z")
And note as well, there are no recorded instances of someone being fatally struck by lightning while defending themselves with a firearm! Checkmate, gun-grabbers! ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2234 "2013-06-03T16:22:42Z")
That will change when lightning piercing bullets are banned. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2235 "2013-06-03T19:06:28Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I can’t remember: is the first one “assume every pool is full” or “assume every pool is empty”? Actually, number one is “Never assume that the brown thing floating in the pool is a random, loose Baby Ruth candy bar” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2236 "2013-06-03T20:54:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It is deceitful, because you know that comparing the same outcome (deaths) from the two mechanisms would show a greater disparity than the factor of 2 you prefer. So you intentionally compare non-fatal incidents for lightning with fatal incidents for firearms. > > When you compare apples to apples, you find that there are about 23 times as many accidental deaths in the US from firearms as there are from lightning strikes, or about 37 times as many nonfatal firearms injuries as there are nonfatal lightning strikes to humans in the US. You seem to think that comparing lightning deaths to gunshot deaths is apples to apples in a way that makes it deceitful to compare accidental gunshot deaths to lightning strikes. Are you under the impression that people will read me writing “lightning strikes” and think “lightning deaths”? That I am intentionally trying to foster that image in people’s minds? The post I was responding to implied that accidental deaths were common (I wonder whose “deceitfulness” has created that impression). I pointed out how rare it is by comparing it to a rare event, and you think it is deceitful because I didn’t compare it to an even rarer LETHAL event. Who am I trying to fool and how am I trying to fool them? > [@](#): > > I’ll leave it to others to come to their own conclusions about your honesty and integrity. Seriously? > [@steronz](#): > > Really, DA? Really? Someone identifies the _exact point_ you’re making and then explains why it’s irrelevant, and your rebuttal is to claim that they didn’t grasp the point you were making? Really? Why is it irrelevant? Because he said so? How about you read Hentor’s sentence before the one you quoted. He is generalizing firearm incidents to lightning strikes as if I am trying to analogize lightning to guns rather than comparing rare event sot illustrate how rare accidnetal gunshot deaths are. So I bring it back to what I said not how he reframed what I said. I could just as easily have compared accidental gunshot deaths to some other extremely rare event but I guess my point was irrelevant, huh? > [@](#): > > Who’s got the reading comprehension problem here? :dubious: Do you think that accidental firearm deaths are a common event? Lightning strikes are kind of a benchmark for rare events, aren’t they? So I compare accidental firearm deaths to lightning strikes to illustrate how rare accidental firearm deaths are and Hentor basically calls me a liar because I didn’t compare it to lightning fatalities. WTF? Do you think I was trying to make the point that accidental gunshot deaths were rare events or that do you think I was trying to trick people into thinking that guns were not much more dangerous that lightning? Where I saw a comparison of two rare events, Hentor saw deceit because he thinks I should have used a diffeent benchmark rare event. Why? Are lightning strikes not rare enough to make my point or do I have to pick an event so rare that accidental firearm fatalities seems relatively common by comparison? If you are also having trouble understanding my point then maybe its not Hentor’s reading comprehension, perhaps I am not writing clearly enough, I don’t know how I could have made my point any clearer. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2237 "2013-06-04T18:15:37Z")
[http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/04/2095821/citing-stand-your-ground-jury-acquits-man-who-killed-wifes-lover/](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/04/2095821/citing-stand-your-ground-jury-acquits-man-who-killed-wifes-lover/) By way of our good friends at _ThinkProgress_: > [@](#): > > …a jury has acquitted another man under Florida’s controversial law, after he shot dead a man he caught having sex with his wife…Ralph Wald, a 70-year-old Vietnam veteran, walked into his home around midnight, and less than ten seconds later, fired three shots at Walter Conley, according to ABC News. He told the jury he thought Conley was raping his wife when he saw them having intercourse in his home. But during a 911 call, when the dispatcher asked Wald if the man was dead, Wald responded, “I hope so!” and refused to help the man. Maybe this is more like stupid gun laws, but whatever. The guy’s defense boils down to he thought his wife was being raped, so he killed the guy. He walks. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2238 "2013-06-04T20:47:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/04/2095821/citing-stand-your-ground-jury-acquits-man-who-killed-wifes-lover/](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/04/2095821/citing-stand-your-ground-jury-acquits-man-who-killed-wifes-lover/) > > By way of our good friends at _ThinkProgress_: > > Maybe this is more like stupid gun laws, but whatever. The guy’s defense boils down to he thought his wife was being raped, so he killed the guy. He walks. This particular “stupid gun law” is a fairly common law that permits the defense of others with anything from a gun to a baseball bat. It really depends on whether or not the jury believes you. This jury decided to believe him. I don’t think this result is particular to states with stand your ground laws. Of course it does not protect you from civil suit if it turns out you were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2239 "2013-06-08T11:23:05Z")
Those depraved four-year-olds are at it again: > [@](#): > > Authorities in northern Arizona say a 4-year-old boy has accidentally shot and killed his father at a Prescott Valley home. [http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=19354029](http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=19354029) ---
**Author:** ![fudrucker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fudrucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fudrucker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2240 "2013-06-08T11:51:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Guns are tools for killing. If you aren’t afraid of some stranger carrying a gun in a place he has no reason to, you’re an idiot. Yea right, a citizen having a legal right to open carry is an idiot. I guess it’s up you to decide where that is. The hell with your state constitution right? You know better. QUOTE=Der Trihs;15951285] And I don’t care in the slightest that it was legal, legal and moral aren’t the same thing. [/QUOTE] And you seem to be the arbiter of both. QUOTE=Der Trihs;15951285] For that matter it _isn’t_ legal any more here in California; that kind of stunt instigated the passage of a law against it. [/QUOTE] Hmm two paragraphs above you inferred that it _was_ legal. Which is it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=111) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=113)