# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/241 "2013-02-05T02:55:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The plural of anecdote is not data. I agree, that’s the same thing I tell people when the bring up Newton AND Aurora. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/242 "2013-02-05T02:57:23Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Huh. Well, I don’t watch videos when I’m at work, so I’ve just been assuming they’re all stupid gun news. Are you saying you’ve been deliberately posting good gun news in this thread, in spite of what it’s called? When you get home watch a few and tell me what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/243 "2013-02-05T03:17:41Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Last time I checked, it tested above average. What did I miss? Ah, so you’ve had trouble comprehending other things you’ve read too. Next time, have someone else check things for you; you clearly don’t understand much that you read, even when they are your own test scores. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/244 "2013-02-05T03:32:26Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Ah, so you’ve had trouble comprehending other things you’ve read too. Next time, have someone else check things for you; you clearly don’t understand much that you read, even when they are your own test scores. Ran out of argument did ya? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/245 "2013-02-05T03:44:53Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > When you get home watch a few and tell me what you think. Sadly, I don’t have internet access at home. Most of your posts I end up lumping into the category of “Hey, guys, check this out! \”. If it were email, it’d be getting caught by my spam filter. It might help in the future if, in addition to the youtube link, you provided a summary, or a link to an actual news story like, I dunno, the thread title suggests? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/246 "2013-02-05T04:07:45Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Sadly, I don’t have internet access at home. Most of your posts I end up lumping into the category of “Hey, guys, check this out! \”. If it were email, it’d be getting caught by my spam filter. It might help in the future if, in addition to the youtube link, you provided a summary, or a link to an actual news story like, I dunno, the thread title suggests? What and spoil the surprise? I don’t know what else to tell you except to maybe get an ipad. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/247 "2013-02-05T05:56:49Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Ran out of argument did ya? No. The thing is, you never had an argument to begin with. And you’re apparently unable to understand that, so you keep posting inanities. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/248 "2013-02-05T06:45:19Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?_r=0) > > "In the 1990s, a team headed by Arthur Kellermann of Emory University looked at all injuries involving guns kept in the home in Memphis, Seattle and Galveston, Tex. They found that these weapons were fired far more often in accidents, criminal assaults, homicides or suicide attempts than in self-defense. For every instance in which a gun in the home was shot in self-defense, there were seven criminal assaults or homicides, four accidental shootings, and 11 attempted or successful suicides. " > > 1:22. Ouch. There are all sorts of studies out there on defensive gun use and at one end of the spectrum is Kleck and Gertz who many consider to be industry shills because their methodology stretches to define almost anything as a defensive gun use. On the other end of the spectrum is Kellerman who many people consider a political activist with no objectivity. he basically doesn’t count anything that doesn’t result in a criminal actually getting shot as a defensive gun use. I tend to believe the Department of justice numbers. are only slightly on the high side. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Most gun enthusiasts don’t count suicides. Even though having a gun increases the chance you’ll commit suicide. Everyone has been at low emotional points and people who have a gun handy when that happens are more likely to impulsively turn the switch. The lethality of suicide attempts with guns is orders of magnitude higher than lethality of other forms of attempted suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/249 "2013-02-05T12:22:54Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I like when people watch the link and think “but that’s not stupid.” > [@Ethilrist](#): > > So, reading for comprehension is not your strong suit. I see. > [@Kable](#): > > Last time I checked, it tested above average. What did I miss? You missed the title of the thread. See, we have this other, rather lengthy thread called “Stupid Republican idea of the day”. In it, people post stupid things that Republicans and other conservatives have said or done. What they don’t do is post sensible things that Republicans/conservatives have said or done, _because that’s not what the thread is about_. You seem to think that this is a GD thread where all instances of stupid gun news must be somehow cancelled out by news of someone using a gun properly, and that by posting links to these videos you’re proving some sort of point. All you’re proving, however, is that you’re fucking clueless about how this messageboard works. If you want to start a thread about people using guns in a sensible way, by all means do so. I welcome it. But if you do, don’t just post coy links to YouTube videos with no description of what they’re about and why you’re posting them, because that too would prove that you’re fucking clueless about how this messageboard works. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/250 "2013-02-05T12:36:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No. > > The thing is, you never had an argument to begin with. And you’re apparently unable to understand that, so you keep posting inanities. Is this cute 89 year old lady who defended herself against a home invader inane? [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/i3jURuXjjJ8/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC6AKKAgwIABABGHIgVCg9MA8=&rs=AOn4CLAMxGumGHo2FOnlzK67d77AhfHjAQ "Elderly Woman Shoots at Intruder") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3jURuXjjJ8) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/251 "2013-02-05T15:05:51Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Is this cute 89 year old lady who defended herself against a home invader inane? What is inane is your insistence that a 89 year old lady who defended herself is a stupid gun news story. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/252 "2013-02-05T15:10:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What is inane is your insistence that a 89 year old lady who defended herself is a stupid gun news story. No, you don’t _get it_, man! It’s _not_ a stupid gun news story, but posting it in a thread about stupid gun news stories totally makes it a “gotcha!”. Don’t you all feel stupid now? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/253 "2013-02-05T15:15:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Don’t you all feel stupid now? mmm, no. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/254 "2013-02-05T17:14:55Z")
[quote=“Kable, post:250, topic:648729”] Is this cute 89 year old lady who defended herself against a home invader inane? [/QUOTE] Two interesting things there - she was quite successful doing so with a little revolver. Also, the story was apparently on CNN. Thanks for sharing your evidence that people do not need semi-automatic weapons for successful personal defense, and that these stories receive significant media attention. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/255 "2013-02-05T17:37:15Z")
In other words, 89 year old lady defends herself with gun that would not be banned. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/256 "2013-02-05T18:39:45Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > In other words, 89 year old lady defends herself with gun that would not be banned. And the nice policeman reloaded it for her. They won’t do _that_ with a thirty round magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/257 "2013-02-05T21:16:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Two interesting things there - she was quite successful doing so with a little revolver. Also, the story was apparently on CNN. > > Thanks for sharing your evidence that people do not need semi-automatic weapons for successful personal defense, and that these stories receive significant media attention. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > In other words, 89 year old lady defends herself with gun that would not be banned. I did a little further reading on this story. I’ll say first of all that I am very glad the woman in the story (Beatrice Turner) was unhurt, and I think she was well within her rights to shoot the guy. Now, then. The CNN piece excluded some details that were reported by the _Des Moines Register_. The _Register_ article is no longer available for free online, but the patriots over at something called [m4carbine.net](http://m4carbine.net) helpfully [copied and pasted the whole article](http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-52340.html)for future generations to enjoy. > [@Des Moines Register](#): > > Turner fired one shot - and missed. “I squeezed it again but it didn’t go off,” she said. “By then he was pounding on the coffee table.” > > Turner said the man kept repeating, “It’s not daylight, it’s not daylight.” > > “I told him Jesus and I would go outside with him and make the daylight come,” Turner said. > > A neighbor who heard the gunshot called police. > > When officers arrived at Turner’s house, located north of Hiatt Middle School, they found Nelson McAlpine, 37, standing in the front yard. Officers asked him if he lived there, and he said, ‘No.’ > > McAlpine reportedly told police he had been using drugs and didn’t know where he was, officers said. Sure, the gun played a part in this story. Had Ms. Turner not had a gun, I am sure the story would have played out differently. But I note that Ms. Turner, having been unable to get off a second shot, defused the situation by calming the guy down verbally. Talking to him, saying Jesus would help him, was what finally resolved the situation. Again, I am not disputing that Ms. Turner had every right to kill an intruder. And I am not disputing that defensive gun uses do happen. I just don’t see this as a slam-dunk case for a gun saving her life. I see it as a case of the media getting some mileage out of the “gun-toting granny” trope, even though the granny’s kindness and compassion ended up being more effective than the gun. And because I am bored (hey, it’s my last week before I go to a new job), I started poking around on the topic of elderly people and guns in general. In a 2010 [article](http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/guns-in-frail-hands/), _The NY Times_ reports on the increasingly common problem of elderly Americans, some suffering from dementia, holding on to their guns. The article notes: > [@NY Times](#): > > With the 85-and-older population growing faster than any group in the country, gun ownership among the very old is increasingly a concern of adult children, who worry that elderly parents will commit suicide or shoot someone they mistake for an intruder The VA has launched a public awareness campaign about the dangers of firearms in the hands of people with dementia. One of their [publications (PDF)](http://www.va.gov/vhapublications/ViewPublication.asp?pub_ID=2731) notes that firearm owners with dementia are at increased risk of shooting a loved one they mistake for an intruder. And a [study](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10522950)in the _Journal of the American Geriatric Society_ found that firearms were present in 60.4% of houseolds in which a member suffered from dementia. In households with a firearm, 44% of the families reported that the guns were kept loaded, and 38% of families reported that they _were not sure if the guns were loaded or not_. In Seattle in September 2012, police shot and killed a man with dementia in a “tragic incident”. The _Seattle Times_ [reports](http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019248308_policeshooting25m.html) that 77-year-old Henry Lee called 911 to report an intruder. There was no intruder. There was an unrelated emergency response going on in the street in front of the house, and Lee apparently mistook the commotion for an intruder. When police arrived and made their way toward Lee’s house, Lee stood in the doorway and brandished a gun. The police ordered him to drop it. He lowered the gun, then raised it again. Police then shot him. Price of freedom, I suppose. Sure, it’s a fun story when Granny shoots an intruder (even when she doesn’t, really), but it’s a little less amusing when cops shoot an elderly person who probably shouldn’t have a gun anymore. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/258 "2013-02-05T21:22:44Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Sure, it’s a fun story when Granny shoots an intruder (even when she doesn’t, really), but it’s a little less amusing when cops shoot an elderly person who probably shouldn’t have a gun anymore. You’re a real spoil sport, you know that, Bayard? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/259 "2013-02-05T21:30:30Z")
“You’ll shoot your eye out, Grandpa!” ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/260 "2013-02-05T21:51:02Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > The VA has launched a public awareness campaign about the dangers of firearms in the hands of people with dementia. I’m tempted to say your sentence should be altered to read “a public awareness campaign of the danger of people with dementia.” Firearms, cars, power tools, kitchen appliances… there’s almost no end to the things a demented person shouldn’t be handling anymore because of the danger it poses to them and to others around them. But who wants to hold that conversation with their parents? “Dad, I think it’s time you sell your guns and power tools. Mom, I think it’s time you stop driving.” But we sure need to talk about these things! Here’s hoping the VA’s campaign does some good. At least with cars in the hands of the very elderly, there’s more general awareness of the problem. Creating awareness is definitely the first step. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=14)