# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 140
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2781 "2013-08-19T17:14:55Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Twice? Wow. Either you hang out with some real swaggering bullies or you’re just a total asshole who **deserves to have a gun pointed in your face**. > > How do we know you are one of the good guys? Deserves to have a gun pointed in my face? Case in point # 1 Lumpy. You’re really not to swift, are you Acewiz? I thought the idea was to convince all of us doubters that it’s a great idea for yahoo’s like you to have handguns as you wouldn’t act like little kids with a toy and go pointing them at people whenever the idea strikes your fancy, but instead behave like an adult invested with a grave responsibility. But thanks for being honest and confirming what I sort of already knew. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2782 "2013-08-19T18:03:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You have to start with the first point before you can get on with the second. So, uncomfortable as it might be for you, yes, we are. No we’re not. For the sake of argument, we have by and large assumed away the constitutional problems associated with banning guns. We have also assumed away the political impossibility of passing a gun ban. Now you want us to assume that a gun ban would do more than prevent a small sliver of the gun murders in America? We don’t need to know how many gun murders there are in total to determine how many gun deaths will be prevented by banning guns. Its like saying we need to know how many incidents of cancer there are in total to determine how many incidents of cancer could be prevented by eliminating X-rays. > [@](#): > > Sure we have, it just hasn’t made it through your shields. No, I’m not going to try it again. No you haven’t, hentor and I have had some discussions about it but you obviously didn’t understand the conversation because at no point did hentor establish that more lives are lost than saved by having guns in private hands. In fact most of his argument has been that I have failed to meet the burden of proving that more lives are saved than lost, I don’t think he has ever even attempted to prove the opposite. > [@](#): > > Every single fucking time you use it, except when claiming that there are, yes, some small minority of “bad guys” who own their guns legally. You even use it to refer to people whose ownership would be outlawed as “law abiding citizens”. You are unaware of how your use of a favorite buzzword signifies the depth to which you have considered an issue. True, your volume of invective shows it even more, though. My volume of invective??? Pffft! Are you fucking kidding me. you’re so fucking stupid everyone on your side of the arugment wishes you would just stop trying to help because youa re so fucking stupid. How old are you anyways? > [@](#): > > Except you also use it for \*legal \*owners who commit crimes. So what? Legal gun owners commit crimes. Previously law abiding people commit crimes but they do so at a far lower rate than criminals. What’s your fucking point? > [@](#): > > You oppose it whenever it comes up. You opposed Manchin-Toomey. You laughed at its proponents. You blame them instead of yourself for its failure. You oppose those things. Your claim to support them is a lie. You are lying. You do not advocate those things, you oppose them. You are fooling no one but yourself. When it’s time to support any measure at all, reasonable or otherwise, you oppose it. You Oppose It. So when did licensing and registration come up? When did I oppose it? You’re either lying or stupid… probably both (I’m gonna guess you were born into a liberal environment because if you were born in a more neutral environment, it is clear you would be a Republican today, you seem to adopt their mentality naturally). When did I oppose Manchin Toomey? You have a cite for that? I laughed at its proponents because they deserved to be laughed at. They overreached with an AWB and that overreach caused their failure with the gun show loophole. > [@](#): > > Clear now? Psychopath. No, you still haven’t provided anything other than your muddlede opinions. You havea cite for any of what you are saying? You didn’t have much credibility to begin with but you are deep into negative territory now and theer is almost no hope for a recovery. yopu might as well just delete your account and start over with a new user name. > [@](#): > > To repeat the question you’re ducking: What is your definition, and how would anyone else know? My definition of good guy is anyone that’s not a bad guy. The overwhelming majority of people fall into the category of good guys. The murder rate is 4.7/100,000/year (about half what it was 20 years ago). The aggravated assault rate is 2.4/1000/year (a little more than double what it was 20 years ago). The vast majority of people are good law abiding people. There is a small minority of people that account for the large majority of all murders and violent crimes. The incidence of violent behaviour is not randomly distributed. We have a really good idea of who is likely to commit violence in the future. They tend to have a history of violence and they tend to be younger. A woman over 30 with no history of violence is not nearly as likely to commit a violent crime as a 22 year old male with a history of violence and incarceration. Assuming competence and proper safety habits, I would feel safe around that 30 year old female even if she had a gun. I wouldn’t feel safe around that male even if he only had a spork. Of course this doesn’t mean that law abiding citizens will always remain so but when we compare the incidence of gun murders committed by law abiding citizens to the number of defensive gun uses, it seems likely that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens prevent more harm than they cause. > [@](#): > > Says the guy who uses the terms “good guy” and “bad guy” unironically. As if they have clear meanings at all. IIRC, you’re the one who started using those terms in this debate. :smack: > [@](#): > > Says the guy who thinks he’s waving a Magic Wand of Protection and Goodness. :dubious: > [@](#): > > So, you think banning guns would make more of them appear in “these neighborhoods” (watch it now)? No but you would elimnate much of the defensive gun use in this country and turn those incidents of defensive gun use into things like murder, assault, robbery, rape, etc. > [@](#): > > And you don’t get that the owners of guns who refuse to comply with the law would then be the violent criminals, not the “law-abiding citizens” you continue to refer to them as? Yes, I agree, they would no longer be law abiding citizens but why would that make them violent criminals? We will have more than a few waco and ruby ridge type incidents. but I suspect that a lot of the folks who don’t comply with an order to turn in their guns will keep them buried in the back yard. > [@](#): > > No, gun ownership is the primordial right to you, isn’t it? The right to effective self defense is a primordial right. The right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right, like the right to an abortion or freedom of the press. > [@](#): > > You really \*believe \*that shit, don’t you? He brought his vote with him. So what was the gun for? To express his opinion. I don’t think its a good way to express your opinion because it doesn’t look good but I don’t for a moment think he was trying to threaten his legislators with assassination. Do you? > [@](#): > > See the “we’ve been over that” discussion. :rolleyes: Cite. Where have you provided any evidence to support your position? Do you really think there aren’t at least 12,000 defensive gun uses every year? > [@Lumpy](#): > > It is only in your cowering sheep’s mind that carrying a gun is _ipso facto_ a threat. Not a slam on cops but according to a study (its over 20 years old) by Don Kates (civil rights lawyer and criminaologist focused on police misconduct), 11% of police shootings are erroneous while only 2% of civilian shootings are not justified. Its not just cowering, its delusion wrapped in a veil of calling everyone else a baby killer. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2783 "2013-08-19T22:48:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not a slam on cops but according to a study (its over 20 years old) by Don Kates (civil rights lawyer and criminaologist focused on police misconduct), 11% of police shootings are erroneous while only 2% of civilian shootings are not justified. > > Its not just cowering, its delusion wrapped in a veil of calling everyone else a baby killer. Hmmm. Sounds like an awkwardly quoted or badly defined “study”. Murderers are civilians. Pretty scary to contemplate a scenario where there are enough shootings that only 2% weren’t justified (murders)… Tried looking up the study, and pulled up tons of pro gun sites trumpeting it with that exact phrasing, but couldn’t find it in the only article I found actually attributed to Mr. Kates. Can you still find the original article DA ? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2784 "2013-08-20T00:19:52Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Hmmm. Sounds like an awkwardly quoted or badly defined “study”. > > Murderers are civilians. Pretty scary to contemplate a scenario where there are enough shootings that only 2% weren’t justified (murders)… > > Tried looking up the study, and pulled up tons of pro gun sites trumpeting it with that exact phrasing, but couldn’t find it in the only article I found actually attributed to Mr. Kates. > > Can you still find the original article DA ? Near as I can tell, **sylmar** , the stat was widely publicized in Jeffrey Snyder’s Fall 1993 essay in The National Interest, titled, “[A Nation of Cowards](http://www.rkba.org/comment/cowards.html).” In that, he cites the stat to an article from Carol Silver and Don Kates in the 1979 anthology, Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out , titled, _[Self Defense, Handgun Ownership, and the Independence of Women In A Violent Sexist Society](http://www.saf.org/journal/other/silverkates.pdf)_. The problem, as you note, is that the stat isn’t anywhere in that article. Clayton Cramer and David Kopel also cited Kates’s study in their 1995 article in the Tennessee Law Review, “_[Shall Issue: The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws](http://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/shall-issue.html#T145)_,” to the same Silver & Kates article. Cramer and Kopel note that Kates helped out with a lot of the data they used in their article. You’d think he’d have caught it if it were mistaken. Both Cramer and Kopel are frequent contributor/commenters at the Volokh Conspiracy, and both have responded to comments I’ve made on articles of either of theirs in the past. They might have some more data about where it came from, or preferably, something more recent that the late 1970s. My guess is that the 1969-70 study of Chicago P.D. justifiable homicides mentioned in the Silver & Kates article was conflated with other data to come up with the stat. That, or it was in a previous version of the article that showed up in the printed book, yet didn’t make it to the online version. You could shoot [Dr. Kates](http://www.independent.org/aboutus/person_detail.asp?id=739) an e-mail, and see what he says. I’m kind of curious how the stat came to be too. In any event, the data is really old, and I’m not sure if it reflects current justifiable use of force findings for either LEOs or non-LEOs. But \*\*Damuri Ajashi \*\*wasn’t inventing the stat out of thin air. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2785 "2013-08-20T01:30:08Z")
I salute your superior sleuthing skills Gray Ghost. Didn’t mean for anyone to think I was implying Ajashi wasn’t on the level. Just couldn’t believe a credible study would use incredibly broad, decisively vague language like that. When I couldn’t find a reasonable facsimile of the quote in original material, yeah, I started thinking stats/articles were being mashed up for an easy to remember talking point and was wondering how far from the original it had fallen. Sorry for side tracking the discussion from “stupid things” to “things I’m curious about”. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2786 "2013-08-20T04:45:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Still with the rubber-glue stuff, huh, kiddo? 😃 Let’s be clear here. “the rubber-glue stuff”, in adult language, represents an accusation of hypocrisy. Which is a valid assertion, given that on the same page in this thread you have both asserted that your opponents don’t even try to understand your position AND accused your opponents of having secret, insulting real reasons for their position. > [@](#): > > When come back, bring argument. I brought several. However, as you so gleefully attempted to admonish me about, you’ve made no attempt whatsoever to understand or address them. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2787 "2013-08-20T04:48:18Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > It is only in your cowering sheep’s mind Get serious. I realize it’s Elvis, but that’s no excuse to be inaccurate. There’s no evidence that he HAS a mind. In the general case, there’s no reason to ascribe “cowardice” as an attribute of people merely because they differently assess a set of relatively insignificant risks with precious little empirical data to accurately quantify them. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2788 "2013-08-20T16:39:55Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > I salute your superior sleuthing skills Gray Ghost. Didn’t mean for anyone to think I was implying Ajashi wasn’t on the level. > > Just couldn’t believe a credible study would use incredibly broad, decisively vague language like that. When I couldn’t find a reasonable facsimile of the quote in original material, yeah, I started thinking stats/articles were being mashed up for an easy to remember talking point and was wondering how far from the original it had fallen. > > Sorry for side tracking the discussion from “stupid things” to “things I’m curious about”. I got the quote from the same places you did. I think your suspsicions might be correct, i.e. someone paraphrased the study in a way that discounts the differences between the sort of situations cops find themselves in and the sort of situations law abiding citizens find themselves in. It think there might also bea difference between the standards that cops are subjected to versus the standards civilians are subjected to. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2789 "2013-08-20T17:42:25Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > No cowering sheep here, but I have had two instances of a handgun being pointed at me with no justification beyond the pointer being irritated. > > So you can ID Good Guys/Bad Guys just by looking at them Lumpy? Because lacking the centuries of interaction we’ve had with the countries you’ve cited with someone you’re just meeting, that seems to be the inference… I’ve had a gun pointed at me about half a dozen times. Once by an idiot who thought that all guns had thumb safeties when he pointed a gun at my head (it was a glock), twice by criminals during a robbery (I was 11 years old the first time) and 3 times by cops (I was in Los Angeles during all 3 of these incidences). I’ve never had some asshole try to use a gun to win an argument or something like that. It sounds like you live around an unusual concentration of assholes. Around here, just brandishing a gun at someone (as in opening your jacket and showing them your gun in a threatening manner) is enough to send you to jail and forefeit your right to possess firearms. I remember a story about a guy who was standing in the middle of a costco aisle talking on the phone when someone walked by him and gave him a dirty look for standing in the middle of the aisle so the first guy opened his jacket and pointed to his gun. He was arrested and he can no longer possess a firearm. > [@sylmar](#): > > Yeah, I just can’t get my head around the NRA’s Good Guy/ Bad Guy , everyone needs a handgun argument. People don’t come in just two flavors. No but people are not all snowflakes either. We can predict the likelihood of committing gun murder by looking at demographic factors and prior criminal history. > [@](#): > > What’s not a threat in one situation could be a whole different ballgame in another when forgetfullness, jealousy, road rage or biggus dickus syndrome kick in. You seem new to this thread so let me ask you what I have asked others. Of the approximately 12,000 gun murders committed each year, how many do you think are committed by people who are legally permitted to possess a gun? Would you be surprised if I told you that over half of gun murders are committed by people who have been convicted of a felony (one of the categories of people who cannot possess a firearm), in some cities the percentage is above 90%. Would you be surprised if I told you that one in 6 gun homocides are committed by people age 10-19 (many of whom are too young to legally possess a firearm)? The percentage of gun murders committed by people who are legally allowed to possess a firearm is slim. According to the Department of Justice (the best information we have), people use guns in the defense of self or others about 250,000 times/year and people use guns to protect property about 100,000 times/year (there is some question whether these numbers are over a 4 year period, mostly because a guy wrote an article that implies that the numbers are cumulative rather than an average of 4 years). Don’t you think its at least worth considering whether or not legally owned guns do more good than harm? > [@](#): > > The NRA’s push for a handgun in every pocket does nothing to make me feel safer. That feeling might be mostly in your mind and unjustified by the facts. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If they have the guts to close and do it hand to hand, then maybe you have a point. You really want to make physical size and strength the criteria for justified use of force and self defense? So the woman walking through a bad neighborhood at night is shit out of luck if a big strong rapist attackes her. > [@](#): > > A gun lets somebody be a coward, do it at a distance, and see the victim as less human, or a “bad guy” who had it coming. A gun lets a 100 pound woman defend herself against a 200 pound rapist. A gun lets a person defend their family against armed robbers. A gun lets storeowners protect their livelihood against looters during a riot. Guns are no more cowardly than a crossbow or a katan but you just seem deathly afraid of guns. You should see someonebody about your irrational fears, its one of the first signs of becoming a Republican. > [@](#): > > Wrong again. A nation with a military controlling nuclear weapons has all kinds of positive safeguards, with many persons involved who all have to participate. It is not possible for a single person who gets angry, or drunk, or scared to launch them. A nation is not a person, and neither is a military. One person can make the deicision to launch and unless you have never heard of North korea, you should know that some nukes are in the hands of crazy people. > [@](#): > > such as \*\*DA \*\*does with his “those neighborhoods” :rolleyes: comment. WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to call me a racist? Don’t be coy, you’ve already called me a baby killer why the reluctance to call me a racist outright instead of being a pussy about it? > [@Zeriel](#): > > Let’s be clear here. “the rubber-glue stuff”, in adult language, represents an accusation of hypocrisy. Which is a valid assertion, given that on the same page in this thread you have both asserted that your opponents don’t even try to understand your position AND accused your opponents of having secret, insulting real reasons for their position. Its hard to have a conversation with irrational fear isn’t it? Well, at least he’s predictable, sort of. > [@](#): > > I brought several. However, as you so gleefully attempted to admonish me about, you’ve made no attempt whatsoever to understand or address them. That is not his purpose. He’s just butthurt that his side blew a perfectly good opportunity to get real gun control legislation passed and blew it to push a totally ineffective assault weapons ban. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2790 "2013-08-20T21:51:37Z")
Okay, wall of text posts are not cool… Nor is rattling off a bunch of random stats without context. Rural? Urban? Years? Affiliation of the group presenting the data? Nor is using facts and opinions interchangeably. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The percentage of gun murders committed by people **who are legally allowed to possess a firearm is slim**. When just prior to this, you’d said > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Would you be surprised if I told you that **over half of gun murders are committed by people who have been convicted of a felony** (one of the categories of people who cannot possess a firearm) I don’t think numbers approaching half of all murders being committed by non-felons rates being trivialized as “slim”. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Don’t you think its at least worth considering whether or not legally owned guns do more good than harm? Sure. But that’s not my dog here. My argument is we should be willing to _rationally_ look at ways to make gun ownership safer for\* everyone\* without the knee jerk ,“They’re coming to make my gunz” wailing. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That feeling might be mostly in your mind and unjustified by the facts. I’m quite cognizant that my feelings are unrelated to “facts” at the present time. They’re related to my personal experience. I’ve never seen any stats on number of incidents of gun pointing in face or percent of gun owners who are irresponsible/idiots. There’s more we can do Ajashi, it’s not a zero sum argument. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2791 "2013-08-20T21:53:22Z")
And sorry, I realize this is supposed to be stupid gun news and not a debate. Is there a more relevant ongoing thread for that? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2792 "2013-08-20T22:19:53Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Let’s be clear here. “the rubber-glue stuff”, in adult language, represents an accusation of hypocrisy. Which is a valid assertion, given that on the same page in this thread you have both asserted that your opponents don’t even try to understand your position AND accused your opponents of having secret, insulting real reasons for their position. You have no idea what the word “hypocrisy” means at all, do you? Both things you say I do are indeed what I do. You both refuse to understand any position but your own, AND you have motivations other than the ones you admit to. It is not inconsistent for both things to be true, and to rub them both in your smirking, childish little face. So what approach is effective on you? Apparently none. You should expect to be treated with the level of respectability you have earned here, as your following post illustrates. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2793 "2013-08-20T22:26:13Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > And sorry, I realize this is supposed to be stupid gun news and not a debate. Is there a more relevant ongoing thread for that? [Here’s one](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b69_1376878619). A coupla more fucking menaces lucky to be alive. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2794 "2013-08-21T01:07:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You have no idea what the word “hypocrisy” means at all, do you? Both things you say I do are indeed what I do. You both refuse to understand any position but your own, AND you have motivations other than the ones you admit to. It is not inconsistent for both things to be true, and to rub them both in your smirking, childish little face. I invite you to take your psychic roadshow off to win Mr. Randi’s eponymous prize, then, chucklefuck. The fact that you think you’re winning or making any sort of point may be the stupid gun news of the decade. I just want you to answer one little question, for the record: If all gun owners are sniveling cowards who need their big mighty boomstick to feel powerful and safe, why are all the firearms I own more than an hour drive away from my current residence and expected to stay there for at least a year? Y’know, since I’m a paranoid psychopath who must have my murder device near at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2795 "2013-08-21T12:28:54Z")
Guns are fun! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2796 "2013-08-21T17:52:26Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Guns are fun! I agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2797 "2013-08-21T18:34:27Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Okay, wall of text posts are not cool… Its one of my many faults. > [@](#): > > Nor is rattling off a bunch of random stats without context. Rural? Urban? Years? Affiliation of the group presenting the data? I thought they were pretty relevant stats. The stats are nationwide except where I expressly say otherwise. The stats are compiled by the Department of Justice/FBI. Its raw data. > [@](#): > > Nor is using facts and opinions interchangeably. Where do I do this in a way that is murky or are you saying that (or are you referring to some other post of mine? > [@](#): > > When just prior to this, you’d said… > I don’t think numbers approaching half of all murders being committed by non-felons rates being trivialized as “slim”. Convicted felons are not the only people prohibited from possessing firearms. But just that ONE of several categories of people who are prohibited from possessing firearms (convicted felons) accounts for over half of all gun murders. Add minors, domestic abusers and other people who are not permitted to possess firearms. > [@](#): > > Sure. But that’s not my dog here. My argument is we should be willing to _rationally_ look at ways to make gun ownership safer for\* everyone\* without the knee jerk ,“They’re coming to make my gunz” wailing. I’ve proposed licensing and registration of all firearms. Zeriel has proposed imposing strict criminal liability for any crime committed with any firearm you ever owned or sold. What knee jerk wailing are you talking about? > [@](#): > > I’m quite cognizant that my feelings are unrelated to “facts” at the present time. They’re related to my personal experience. I’ve never seen any stats on number of incidents of gun pointing in face or percent of gun owners who are irresponsible/idiots. > > There’s more we can do Ajashi, it’s not a zero sum argument. Yeah, I agree. We can start by enforcing the laws that are already on the books. We can undo some of the stupider laws we have on the books. And I think licensing and registration would be a good idea as well. I don’t know if you’ve caught on yet but there is one side of this argument that is absolutist and another side that is willing to compromise but keep getting called baby killer. > [@sylmar](#): > > And sorry, I realize this is supposed to be stupid gun news and not a debate. Is there a more relevant ongoing thread for that? Nah, the ones in great debates wither away when the gun control side can’t sustain their arguments iwhtout the namecalling that is only allowed here. So this is where we have these debates. IOW, the debate is more or less over. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I invite you to take your psychic roadshow off to win Mr. Randi’s eponymous prize, then, chucklefuck. The fact that you think you’re winning or making any sort of point may be the stupid gun news of the decade. > > I just want you to answer one little question, for the record: > > If all gun owners are sniveling cowards who need their big mighty boomstick to feel powerful and safe, why are all the firearms I own more than an hour drive away from my current residence and expected to stay there for at least a year? Y’know, since I’m a paranoid psychopath who must have my murder device near at all times. I don’t think he really differentiates between you, me and Ted Nugent. As far as he is concerned, we are all disciples of Wayne LaPierre and hold monolithic views. If we don’t support all gun control, we do not support any of it. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2798 "2013-08-22T14:22:52Z")
[“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”](http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/us/georgia-school-gunshots/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) -Wayne LaPierre ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2799 "2013-08-22T19:40:25Z")
> [@bup](#): > > [“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”](http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/us/georgia-school-gunshots/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) > -Wayne LaPierre Wayne LaPierre is an ass. Unarmed civilian incapatitate unarmed civilian frequently and visibly enough that he ought to know better. The guy that shot gabby Giffords was taken down by an unarmed civilian. But this lady is something else. Talking down a crazy person that had already started shooting at cops and was reloading magazines!?!?! She ought to run for office. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/2800 "2013-08-22T20:28:18Z")
I’m glad it worked out well for all concerned, but talking down a would-be gunman is risky to say the least. I hope most people realize this isn’t always- or even often- an option. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=139) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=141)