# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 153
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3041 "2013-09-20T13:19:31Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Hard to say. No, it ain’t. Try again. > [@](#): > > OTOH, if you feel that a gun battle is likely the least you can do is to stand away from any innocent bystanders. Are you likely to think of that if you’re in a rage? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3042 "2013-09-20T18:16:56Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > How about a [Gunfight](http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/09/road_rage-related_shootout_lea.html) at the car wash? > > Two fewer CCW fans in Michigan… A win-win situation. Happy they canceled each other out without any innocents being hurt. > [@](#): > > IONIA, MI - Two men died Wednesday, Sept. 18, in a shootout that stemmed from a road rage confrontation, Ionia police said. > > Ionia Department of Public Safety officers were dispatched to Wonder Wand Car Wash in the 400 block of South Steele Street shortly before 7 p.m. on reports of shots fired. Police arrived to find two men with gunshot wounds. > > Initial investigation shows the Ionia men, ages 43 and 56, pulled into the car wash parking lot after a road rage incident. They exited their vehicles and eventually drew handguns and exchanged fire, police said. It wasn’t clear what the two men were arguing about. > > Life EMS transported the men to Sparrow Ionia Hospital, where they were pronounced dead. > > Police said both men, whose identities have not been released, held permits to carry concealed weapons. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3043 "2013-09-20T18:27:41Z")
No innocents hurt? Really? Do you know for a fact that neither of them had any family or friends, or anyone else who might have depended on them or cared about them and will miss them somehow? There are damn few such individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3044 "2013-09-21T09:08:28Z")
"A Wisconsin man is facing charges for allegedly telling his 6-year-old son, who had at least 3 years of firearms training, to lie after shooting his 4-year-old sister in the face with a shotgun. " [http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/17/father-tells-6-year-old-with-3-years-of-gun-training-to-lie-after-shooting-sister-in-face/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/17/father-tells-6-year-old-with-3-years-of-gun-training-to-lie-after-shooting-sister-in-face/) It is so strange to me how guns keep turning good guys in to bad guys. It’s like magic or something. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3045 "2013-09-21T12:00:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No innocents hurt? Really? Do you know for a fact that neither of them had any family or friends, or anyone else who might have depended on them or cared about them and will miss them somehow? There are damn few such individuals. If you really dug into that I suspect you might find an abused spouse, roommate, or co-workers / employees. Anyone so lacking self control as to get into a deadly road rage incident, probably had a fierce temper around the house and at work as well. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3046 "2013-09-21T15:55:48Z")
None of that now. Law-abiding citizens, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3047 "2013-09-22T02:04:00Z")
I can’t recall if we covered the Gilberton, Pennsylvania Police Chief Mark Kessler. Make that _ **former** _ Gilberton, Pennsylvania Police Chief Mark Kessler. Here is his July video: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QQW0RswpQ4) And the “apology” tour: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQakPtOQCJo) where he says "Fuucck You, " and ‘get some more… you bunch of f’ing \*&%$ suckers, you libtard crybaby pu\*\*ies,’ etc. Welp, the town council let him go saying he acted inappropriately, including shooting a likenesses of a couple of council members and misusing town property- the guns in the video. But, never fear! He’s a “good guy” and so are a his supporters who attended the town council meeting where Kessler’s fate was decided. Armed, of course. I’m sure they were not trying to intimidate any council members. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3048 "2013-09-22T18:28:27Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > "A Wisconsin man is facing charges for allegedly telling his 6-year-old son, who had at least 3 years of firearms training, to lie after shooting his 4-year-old sister in the face with a shotgun. " [http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/17/father-tells-6-year-old-with-3-years-of-gun-training-to-lie-after-shooting-sister-in-face/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/17/father-tells-6-year-old-with-3-years-of-gun-training-to-lie-after-shooting-sister-in-face/) Father should be in jail for whatever the local equivalent of second-degree murder is. His gun, his responsibilty. > [@Ca3799](#): > > I can’t recall if we covered the Gilberton, Pennsylvania Police Chief Mark Kessler. > > Make that _ **former** _ Gilberton, Pennsylvania Police Chief Mark Kessler. > > Here is his July video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_QQW0RswpQ4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QQW0RswpQ4) > > And the “apology” tour: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQakPtOQCJo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQakPtOQCJo) where he says "Fuucck You, " and ‘get some more… you bunch of f’ing \*&%$ suckers, you libtard crybaby pu\*\*ies,’ etc. > > Welp, the town council let him go saying he acted inappropriately, including shooting a likenesses of a couple of council members and misusing town property- the guns in the video. And Kessler should be in jail as well for, among other things, terroristic threats. > [@](#): > > It is so strange to me how guns keep turning good guys in to bad guys. It’s like magic or something. > > But, never fear! He’s a “good guy” and so are a his supporters who attended the town council meeting where Kessler’s fate was decided. Armed, of course. I’m sure they were not trying to intimidate any council members. Y’know, I’ve been a gun owner and recreational shooter for fifteen years, and I can’t say that’s been even a strong minority viewpoint in any group of shooters I’ve associated with. Do you happen to have any polling data, or are we back to the problem of getting lawmakers to listen to the citizens instead of the NRA (representing, at most, 7% of the nation’s firearms owners)? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3049 "2013-09-22T18:29:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No innocents hurt? Really? Do you know for a fact that neither of them had any family or friends, or anyone else who might have depended on them or cared about them and will miss them somehow? There are damn few such individuals. Y’know, as much as I disagree with your positions, thanks for saying this so I didn’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3050 "2013-09-23T15:09:50Z")
Jesus, what’s happening in Nairobi, Kenya - it’s turing into a US city as we speak. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3051 "2013-09-23T15:12:53Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Jesus, what’s happening in Nairobi, Kenya - it’s turing into a US city as we speak. Obviously they need more guns. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3052 "2013-09-23T15:15:10Z")
I think you’re right, it’s just not exceptional enough. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3053 "2013-09-24T02:45:03Z")
I don’t know that it’s particularly useful to compare planned terror attacks with a claimed geopolitical cause with lone-gunman mass shootings. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3054 "2013-09-24T06:45:26Z")
I guess it would if it were a “comparison”. Having said that, innocent death by random is still innocent death. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3055 "2013-09-24T11:51:18Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Jesus, what’s happening in Nairobi, Kenya - it’s turing into a US city as we speak. I _told_ you Obama was born in the US! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3056 "2013-09-24T17:58:39Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Both suicides using a gun and accidental discharge are far more likely to occur than anyone (who isn’t a police officer) stopping a crime in progress using a gun. You got a cite for either one? > [@](#): > > Bottom line: some reasonable of amount of gun control is obviously necessary. Are you under the impression we don’t have ANY gun control? We already have gun control, you just want more. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They’re all from you. Look at post 4 in that thread. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Was somebody else borrowing your password when you wrote [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16671905&postcount=187), just yesterday? > [/quote=Damuri Ajashi] > We just defeated a bill that instituted background checks at gun shows for fucks sake. [/quote] Are you daft? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You’ve linked several times to one analysis by some guy in Texas. And how is he wrong? > [@](#): > > you do not link to the Violence Policy Center, we cannot check whether what you say is accurate. My strong suspicion is that while the VPC may have identified 10 murders in Florida by CCW holders, they never said anything remotely suggesting that this was ALL of the murders in Florida by CCW holders. > > In fact, here is specifically what they have to say on the issue: > > [http://www.vpc.org/press/1211ccw2.htm](http://www.vpc.org/press/1211ccw2.htm) > > So, cite for us where VPC concluded there were ONLY 10 murders by CCW people in Florida. If you cannot, your conscience should compel you to explicitly retract this argument. You’re right, the VPC didn’t say these were the only ones. They were simply the only ones they could find. I suppose there were hundreds of secret gun murders committed by CCWs that they were unable to uncover. So tell me again how many defensive gun uses in a year? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Our tendency to focus on deaths in mass shootings has obscured the scope of the problem. > > When considering incidents that involve four or more people getting shot (including the shooter himself) as mass shootings, we have had **250 mass shootings this year.** > > 250 this year - that is essentially one mass shooting every day. > > [We've Had So Many Mass Shootings In The U.S., We've Had To Redefine The Term | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/mass-shootings-us_n_3935978.html) > > We have a fucking problem in this country. And how many of them were killed with assault weapons? > [@TonySinclair](#): > > I _told_ you Obama was born in the US! niiiice:cool: ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3057 "2013-09-24T18:32:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And how is he wrong? He may be right. He may be wrong. He hasn’t presented enough information for even a cursory check. Can you tell me what the total number of CCW people or the total population of Texas that he used for his calculations? Also, anyone with familiarity with official records databases from public agencies knows how fraught with error, missing data and other complications those data are. He has not given any information about these issues in his methods. I told you these things before. That’s why I labeled this one MOSTLY FAIL rather than total fail. Pay attention; repeating myself because of your lack of comprehension is annoying. > [@](#): > > You’re right, the VPC didn’t say these were the only ones. They were simply the only ones they could find. I suppose there were hundreds of secret gun murders committed by CCWs that they were unable to uncover. So… do you not see the problem of comparing a partial figure for the subgroup to the total number of homicides in the population? Do you really not get why that’s a problem??? > [@](#): > > So tell me again how many defensive gun uses in a year? I have no idea, dipshit. I do know that I cannot just select from among a set of flawed estimates based on what I want it to be. Do you? > [@](#): > > And how many of them were killed with assault weapons? There are no such things as assault weapons, right? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3058 "2013-09-24T19:04:25Z")
The poor dear is hearing the voices tell him that if he keeps asking the same questions, then he’ll eventually get the answers he’d rather get, instead of the truthful ones. Or maybe he’s just JAQ’ing again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3059 "2013-09-24T21:09:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > He may be right. He may be wrong. He hasn’t presented enough information for even a cursory check. Can you tell me what the total number of CCW people or the total population of Texas that he used for his calculations? Also, anyone with familiarity with official records databases from public agencies knows how fraught with error, missing data and other complications those data are. He has not given any information about these issues in his methods. > > I told you these things before. That’s why I labeled this one MOSTLY FAIL rather than total fail. Pay attention; repeating myself because of your lack of comprehension is annoying. You’re nitpicking and engaging in pettifoggery. I don’t know if its because of your training and occupation or just plain orneriness but you seem to fail to grasp the difference between proof and evidence. The way I have been trying to argue is to make a statement and rpesent evidence. You then proceed to point out why my evidence isn’t proof. Others have seen the evidence [http://www.ncpa.org/images/1593.gif](http://www.ncpa.org/images/1593.gif) a study by engineering statistician William Sturdevant There are no studies out there that show CCWs to be more violent or crime prone than the general population. most of the controversy tend to revolve around whether guns reduce crime or merely have no effect. There is evidence (from Florida) that CCW laws have virtually no effect on crime in rural areas and reduce violent crime while increasing property crime. > [@](#): > > So… do you not see the problem of comparing a partial figure for the subgroup to the total number of homicides in the population? Do you really not get why that’s a problem??? Yeah I see why thats a problem but I also see how it has probative value. Can’t you, or are you so blinded by your quest to prove your conclusion that you can’t acknowledge that VPC found most of what was out there to be found? VPC (a virulently anti-gun organization) combs the records for cases where a CCW has committed murder (one of the best documented forms of crime) and comes up with ten and then implies that this is just the tip of the iceberg as if it was a small fraction, as if there were a hundred more of these cases out there but they just couldn’t find it (and I think there would need to be a hundred more of these cases to reach parity with the general public). > [@](#): > > I have no idea, dipshit. I do know that I cannot just select from among a set of flawed estimates based on what I want it to be. Do you? Flawed according to who? You and Hemenway? Pfft. You seem to be unable to recognize evidence unless it is proof. > [@](#): > > There are no such things as assault weapons, right? When did I say that? Assault weapons are a contrived subcatagory of firearms that were banned in 1994 largely on cosmetic and ergonomic features. The current push for a ban couldn’t possibly be because of any effect it would have on gun violence generally, seeing as how an AWB has no effect on gun violence (heck, it wouldn’t even help with suicides). The only real reason that has been put forward is that such a ban would reduce mass killings, so lets see. How many of the victims of these mass killings were killed by an assault weapon? You’re getting played out and you are dangerously close to being tossed together with Elvis. That would be a shame, I’ve seen you in other threadsd and you aren’t the mindless droid that Elvis is but your hoplophobia (my new favorite word) is making you look bad in the gun debate. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3060 "2013-09-24T21:18:23Z")
DA, I’m quite confident I’m not the one looking bad. I’m educating you, or trying to as best as humanly possible, about what is and is not evidence. Proof doesn’t enter into it. Chicken Little thought he had evidence that the sky was falling. You are similarly gullible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=152) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=154)