# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 156
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3101 "2013-09-26T21:43:00Z")
90 deaths a day by gun … I know that includes suicides and accidents but holy shit! It’s more in two days than we have in a year. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3102 "2013-09-27T02:04:46Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > 90 deaths a day by gun … I know that includes suicides and accidents but holy shit! It’s more in two days than we have in a year. It pricks the conscience less when you discount the suicides and the black people. That’s how we roll. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3103 "2013-09-27T02:57:22Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It pricks the conscience less when you discount the suicides and the black people. That’s how we roll. Say the gang members and the drug dealers; I take no responsibility for the ethnic or racial makeup of either. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3104 "2013-09-27T02:58:45Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Say the gang members and the drug dealers; I take no responsibility for the ethnic or racial makeup of either. It’s our lax gun laws that put guns in their hands, just as the almighty and holy NRA intends. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3105 "2013-09-27T09:51:43Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Say the gang members and the drug dealers; I take no responsibility for the ethnic or racial makeup of either. Spoken like someone smugly content in their middle class entitlement. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3106 "2013-09-28T00:15:53Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It’s our lax gun laws that put guns in their hands, just as the almighty and holy NRA intends. I’m presuming that that’s rhetorical hyperbole, and that you don’t actually believe that the NRA wants to empower career criminals. As for lax laws, you do understand the concept of _criminals_ being accomplished at _breaking_ laws, don’t you? If guns were completely illegal there’d still be armed gangs and drug dealers. > [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Spoken like someone smugly content in their middle class entitlement. If I have any entitlement, it’s because I followed the rules and lived like a citizen, instead of a parasite or predator. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3107 "2013-09-28T00:37:13Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I’m presuming that that’s rhetorical hyperbole, and that you don’t actually believe that the NRA wants to empower career criminals. The NRA wants to empower all citizens regardless of occupation. If they are white, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3108 "2013-09-29T12:33:46Z")
> **[Children and Guns: The Hidden Toll (Published 2013)](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?hp&_r=1&smid=re-share&)** > > Children shot accidentally — usually by other children — are collateral casualties of the accessibility of guns in America, their deaths at once heart-rending and eminently preventable. "A New York Times review of hundreds of child firearm deaths found that accidental shootings occurred roughly twice as often as the records indicate, because of idiosyncrasies in how such deaths are classified by the authorities. " "The National Rifle Association cited the lower official numbers this year in a fact sheet opposing “safe storage” laws, saying children were more likely to be killed by falls, poisoning or environmental factors — an incorrect assertion if the actual number of accidental firearm deaths is significantly higher. " We really do need to keep better records in order to make sound rules and regulations on gun ownership rights and responsibilities. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3109 "2013-09-29T12:59:53Z")
So, hang on, taking the NRA figures means more people killed other people by gun - they prefer that to accidental death by gun. This makes no sense on any planet. Really, why doesn’t everyone just buy golf clubs … ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3110 "2013-09-29T13:59:35Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > So, hang on, taking the NRA figures means more people killed other people by gun - they prefer that to accidental death by gun. This makes no sense on any planet. > > Really, why doesn’t everyone just buy golf clubs … :rolleyes: Have you ever tried to kill a person 100 yards away with nothing but a golf ball and a 9 iron? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3111 "2013-09-29T14:52:07Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Really, why doesn’t everyone just buy golf clubs … No way, I saw the trouble they’ve caused Tiger Woods. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3112 "2013-09-29T17:00:52Z")
I would have no problem with such “accidents” being legally considered negligent manslaughter, like drunk driving deaths. There’s no excuse for pointing an “empty” gun at someone and pulling the trigger, or not keeping guns secured in houses with children. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3113 "2013-09-29T17:05:46Z")
How about keeping 'em from happening in the first place, then? You good with that? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3114 "2013-09-30T02:27:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How about keeping 'em from happening in the first place, then? You good with that? That’s why I support mandatory safe storage laws, including inspections by local police. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3115 "2013-09-30T20:58:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’ve been asked many times what a “law-abiding citizen”, one who will always be one, is, and how one can tell. A law abiding citizen is one that obeys the law. Its not really that tough. There is no guarantee that anyone will always obey the law. [quote] You finally found someone to tell you how many? How many times did you have to ask? What was the answer? I’ve always had some idea how many defensive gun uses there are, I just keep asking hentor because his only response to any evidence of defensive gun use is that none of the studies are reliable enough for his tastes. It is clear that your side of the argument is losing pitifully in the real world and doing extremely poorly on this board (for a “liberal” position) and I can see why this makes you angry. It must be very frustrating. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How do I know? Hell, how do YOU really know? Go live in a bubble, you’ll feel better and the rest of us won’t have to listen to you. > [@](#): > > Blunt-instrument, blanket approaches to legislation and enforcement in the cause of a safe society are hardly rare in the law, they’re probably even the norm. And there is one such available to us, probably the only effective way, and it’s one that’s even proven effective in virtually the entire rest of the civilized world, too. Considering teh second amendment, what blunt instrument approach is available to us? Or are we assuming away the constitution again? > [@](#): > > The problem isn’t how to identify psychopaths; that’s as futile as you say it is. The problem is how to prevent them from being a mortal danger to others and themselves. That one is doable. In the process, you also protect society from the dumbass killers, not just the psychopath killers. How does any of your proposals disarm the psychopath killers? How does it deal with the fallout of disarming the law abiding citizenry while leaving the cirminals fully armed. > [@Knorf](#): > > In other words, the majority of gun-suicides are preventable, impulse suicides… > > People sometimes assume that if a suicidal person doesn’t have a gun, they’ll find another way to kill themselves. The studies profiled in the link above demonstrate that this is often not the case. Also, an attempt with a gun is by far the most likely to result in a fatal injury, among the most popular methods of suicide. I agree that suicides are much more likely to succeed if attempted with a gun (its really ahrd to argue otherwise). I agree that a some (but not all) of these suicides could be avoided by not allowing these people access to guns. BUT, in light of Hellers recogniztion to an individual right to own a gun, how do you keep guns away from people that may commit suicide? Or are we assuming away the 2nd amendment? > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It pricks the conscience less when you discount the suicides and the black people. That’s how we roll. Aaaand THERE it is. Gun nuts are racists. These sort of things are the heart and soul of the gun grabber argument. > [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Spoken like someone smugly content in their middle class entitlement. I think we all agree that its not just crimnals that are the victims of gang violence but I don’t think making guns illegal is going to reduce gan related gun violence go down a whit. Or do you think passing some law is going to make the gangs turn in their guns? > [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Really, why doesn’t everyone just buy golf clubs … On the plus side, you can golf drunk. On the minus side you’re basically playing fetch with yourself until you get the ball in the hole. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3116 "2013-09-30T23:00:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > BUT, in light of Hellers recogniztion to an individual right to own a gun, how do you keep guns away from people that may commit suicide? Or are we assuming away the 2nd amendment? I’m going to assume that the 2nd Amendment as recently interpreted, as you note, is not likely to change anytime soon. I think it should change. I think someday it will have to change. I support reasonable gun-control legislation such as waiting periods, requirements for locked gun storage with separate ammo storage, background checks, and so on. However I am aware that until societal gun culture in the U.S. changes, none of this is possible. In any case, I would certainly at least wish that the issue of suicides–which guns plainly make worse in terms of increasing the likelihood of fatal results–would be consistently part of the conversation about guns and gun control. ETA: I am a lay but well-trained user of firearms, and started hunting in my early teens, having the most experience with shotguns and rifles. Handguns have never been my forte. I have never bought into the nonsense that firearms are necessary for family and personal protection, and I do not support the NRA as it currently functions politically. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3117 "2013-10-01T10:38:37Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think we all agree that its not just crimnals that are the victims of gang violence but I don’t think making guns illegal is going to reduce gan related gun violence go down a whit. Or do you think passing some law is going to make the gangs turn in their guns? Gang violence is a symptom. Back to the cause/s \>\> ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3118 "2013-10-01T15:44:47Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Gang violence is a symptom. > > Back to the cause/s \>\> Agreed. Poverty, broken families, barriers to success- all need to be fixed. But that doesn’t preclude dealing with the immediate short-term problem- someone assaulting or robbing you on the street- with point self-defense. To propose otherwise would verge into suggesting that the middle class “deserve” to be the victims of crime and violence. In fact, the argument could be made that gun control is a band-aid (and not a particularly effective one) over the gaping wound of our social problems. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3119 "2013-10-01T15:47:52Z")
And in other news: Tony Blair’s daughter held up at gunpoint: > **[Tony Blair’s daughter Kathryn Blair held up at gunpoint by muggers](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/10319425/Tony-Blairs-daughter-Kathryn-Blair-held-up-at-gunpoint-by-muggers.html)** > > Tony Blair’s daughter Kathryn Blair has been held up at gunpoint by two muggers near her home, it has emerged. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3120 "2013-10-01T16:34:30Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > And in other news: > > Tony Blair’s daughter held up at gunpoint: > [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/10319425/Tony-Blairs-daughter-Kathryn-Blair-held-up-at-gunpoint-by-muggers.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/10319425/Tony-Blairs-daughter-Kathryn-Blair-held-up-at-gunpoint-by-muggers.html) Thank god she was carrying a concealed weapon and could stand her ground. We all know that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gunis a good guy with a gun. A shootout was the best possible outcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=155) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=157)