# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 183
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3641 "2014-01-02T15:12:31Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > See and that’s what I expect all the gungrabbers to say after the fact. We’re saying that \*before \*the fact, though. You’re the only who thinks the truthfulness of your anecdote matters. There’s 3 issues here. 1. Do some people use guns to protect themselves? The answer is undoubtedly yes. 2. Does having a gun provide a net safety benefit to an individual? The answer, as best we can tell, is no. 3. Is Kable a liar? #3 is the only issue on the table regarding to your whole story, and resolving it won’t affect 1 or 2. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3642 "2014-01-02T15:27:05Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > We’re saying that \*before \*the fact, though. Glad to see you finally self identifying as a gungrabber. > [@](#): > > 1. Does having a gun provide a net safety benefit to an individual? The answer, as best we can tell, is no. Sure it does, but that probably depends on the individual. > [@](#): > > 1. Is Kable a liar? Of course not. > [@](#): > > #3 is the only issue on the table regarding to your whole story, and resolving it won’t affect 1 or 2. See so what’s it matter. You all just might as well take my word for it. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3643 "2014-01-02T15:48:31Z")
As I said last page, I _did_ just take your word for it, until you started asking for money to produce a police report. And then I thought, well, he’s already admitted to being a troll, maybe he’s a liar as well. Who knows!? Gambit backfire! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3644 "2014-01-02T17:07:21Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > As I said last page, I _did_ just take your word for it, until you started asking for money to produce a police report. And then I thought, well, he’s already admitted to being a troll, maybe he’s a liar as well. Who knows!? Gambit backfire! Maybe he needs money - lots of chambers to feed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3645 "2014-01-02T17:47:01Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > you started asking for money to produce a police report. Maybe that’s it - he’s a former Nigerian finance minister. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3646 "2014-01-02T20:10:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “They”. :dubious: > > So you’re finally going to quit pretending to be anything but a kneejerker (and that’s not the only thing you’re jerking, either)? Some honesty from you at long last? What the fuck are you talking about? > [@Kable](#): > > I just did a quick search and it seems you speak as anything but a pro-gunner… > > How many guns do you have? I think he’s a pro-gunner in the sense that he doesn’t want to ban guns, he just wants to apply the death penalty if your gun is used in a capital offense. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, because _sides_ matter, not facts! Is there some dispositive fact that you think demands a certain policy position? Because I’m pretty sure that the facts have been presented dozens of times. Just based on your responses to specific questions, you are more pro-gun than I am in many ways, so I wonder if you realize the position being taken by the anti-gun side of the debate. The anti-gun side of this debate isn’t for “sensible regulation” of guns or banning “particularly dangerous” guns. They think of these things as stepping stones towards the virtual criminalization of guns in private hands. Many of the guys that are hi-fiving each other over ganging up on Kable support the assault weapons ban. Either because they are stupid enough to think it would have made some sort of meaningful difference or because they think its a good start towards the ultimate goal of banning virtually everything. > [@AlienVessels](#): > > [District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller) > > It’s not an absolute right and it can be limited. > > Thanks for playing. When has Kable ever said that the right doesn’t have any limits? > [@steronz](#): > > We’re saying that \*before \*the fact, though. You’re the only who thinks the truthfulness of your anecdote matters. There’s 3 issues here. > > 1. Do some people use guns to protect themselves? The answer is undoubtedly yes. > > 2. Does having a gun provide a net safety benefit to an individual? The answer, as best we can tell, is no. > > 3. Is Kable a liar? > > #3 is the only issue on the table regarding to your whole story, and resolving it won’t affect 1 or 2. Do you have a cite for your answer to question 2? And Kable keeps bringing up his experience because people keep disregarding your answer to question 1 ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3647 "2014-01-02T20:14:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Do you have a cite for your answer to question 2? You’re familiar with the studies, you don’t accept them for whatever reason. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And Kable keeps bringing up his experience because people keep disregarding your answer to question 1 Kable keeps bringing up his experience because he’s a troll and he has nothing else to offer. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3648 "2014-01-02T20:20:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What the fuck are you talking about? You really are so psychopathic that you don’t get it, aren’t you? Here: To you, people who want responsible gun control laws are “they”. You are not one. The rest of us have known this ever since you started mantra’ing “AWB … AWB …”, but finally you’re stopping the pretense that you want responsible gun control laws. Or maybe you still are unable to understand what you’re saying or even what you mean to say, which is probably the way to bet. How does it feel to have **Kable** so completely on your side? What’s the difference between you and him? > [@](#): > > Do you have a cite for your answer to question 2? Do _you_? Three minutes to Wapner. :rolleyes: Get help. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3649 "2014-01-02T20:25:19Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > You’re familiar with the studies, you don’t accept them for whatever reason. Not for whatever reason. For two specific reasons: 1) he doesn’t like the conclusions, and 2) he doesn’t understand them but other people have told him the studies are biased and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3650 "2014-01-02T20:35:09Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Not for whatever reason. For two specific reasons: 1) he doesn’t like the conclusions, and 2) he doesn’t understand them but other people have told him the studies are biased and wrong. I’ll be generous and give him, 1. The reasons that having a gun in the home is a net risk really comes down to suicides, accidents, and family members becoming violent, and it’s a very typical human response to say, “Well, those things won’t happen to _me_,” and believe it, regardless of what the statistics say. And to a lesser extent, 1. There are these _other_ studies that show that people use guns to defend themselves a lot, like a whole lot, like hundreds of thousands of times a year _on the low end_. Those studies can’t possibly be right if the studies that say guns in the home make people less safe are _also_ right. But that might be a little bit too close to your ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3651 "2014-01-03T03:08:28Z")
**steronz** , I’m often not clear when you are saying what someone else erroneously believes or making an assertion of fact yourself. I’m thinking of the gang violence issue that I don’t recall ever seeing you address. I think he believes #4, but it’s a dubious belief. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3652 "2014-01-03T03:37:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is there some dispositive fact that you think demands a certain policy position? Because I’m pretty sure that the facts have been presented dozens of times. It’s adorable that you try to use big words. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3653 "2014-01-03T03:55:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When has Kable ever said that the right doesn’t have any limits? He asked me twice to define “infringed”. Feel free to connect the dots. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3654 "2014-01-03T06:24:37Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > He asked me twice to define “infringed”. I figured you noticed. So why didn’t you answer? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3655 "2014-01-04T05:14:19Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I just did a quick search and it seems you speak as anything but a pro-gunner… So in other words, you’re illiterate as well as usless. Congratulations on being exactly as useless as ElvisLives. Care to point out any anti-gun position I’ve taken? Things that don’t count as “anti-gun” unless you’re Nugent crazy: - arguing for a license requirement - arguing that registration doesn’t matter worth a damn one way or another - arguing for a safe storage requirement where minors are present - arguing for severe negligence penalties for fucking up in a way that results in your gun shooting someone outside of your intention to do so. I suspect that you’ll think that list is an adequate summary of my so-called “anti-gun” position, though, because you strike me as a useless parlor-Rambo Ted Nugent type. At this point, since you also seem to fail to understand that someone might not check the dope every day, I’m filing you in the “probable liar” category with regard to your police report, too. And for the record, since I have no doubt you’ll ask, I don’t bet with chumps on the internet. I didn’t get to the point in my life where I could afford to bet $500 by arbitrarily throwing $500 down an unverifiable rabbit hole every time some blowhard asked me to. > [@](#): > > How many guns do you have? Two, at present. Planning on at least one more once I find a house in my new city I like enough to buy and enough time to go shoot tactical pistol more than once a year. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3656 "2014-01-04T06:10:59Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > You’re familiar with the studies, you don’t accept them for whatever reason. There is one study that says that you are more likely to be shot if you have a gun in the house. This study is so full of holes that I would really like to see Hentor defend it after he dismisses just about every survey ever done on defensive gun use as being unreliable. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You really are so psychopathic that you don’t get it, aren’t you? Here: To you, people who want responsible gun control laws are “they”. You are not one. The rest of us have known this ever since you started mantra’ing “AWB … AWB …”, but finally you’re stopping the pretense that you want responsible gun control laws. Or maybe you still are unable to understand what you’re saying or even what you mean to say, which is probably the way to bet. God, you’re an idiot. I’ve never seen someone so stupid think they are so smart. > [@](#): > > How does it feel to have **Kable** so completely on your side? What’s the difference between you and him? Well, aside from this gun issue, I don’t think I agree with Kable on most other issues. On the gun issue, I favor licensing and registration and he does not. > [@steronz](#): > > I’ll be generous and give him, > > 1. The reasons that having a gun in the home is a net risk really comes down to suicides, accidents, and family members becoming violent, and it’s a very typical human response to say, “Well, those things won’t happen to _me_,” and believe it, regardless of what the statistics say. And maybe it comes down to self selection. The people who have guns in the home are the ones that are expecting trouble. > [@](#): > > 1. There are these _other_ studies that show that people use guns to defend themselves a lot, like a whole lot, like hundreds of thousands of times a year _on the low end_. Those studies can’t possibly be right if the studies that say guns in the home make people less safe are _also_ right. > > But that might be a little bit too close to your ideas. So studies that say that guns in the home make you less safe was conducted across a small geographic area and doesn’t account for the so many variables that I’m surprised that someone that demands such purity in data for defensive gun use studies seems to think the study you are talking about has much weight at all. Wait, no I’m not. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **steronz** , I’m often not clear when you are saying what someone else erroneously believes or making an assertion of fact yourself. I’m thinking of the gang violence issue that I don’t recall ever seeing you address. > > I think he believes #4, but it’s a dubious belief. As is #3. But at least with #4 there are many studies that all seem to say the same thing. Lots and lots of defensive gun use. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s adorable that you try to use big words. So no answer? I’m disappointed, you didn’t seem like one of the tools that resort to insults in debate but I guess I was wrong. > [@AlienVessels](#): > > He asked me twice to define “infringed”. > > Feel free to connect the dots. Did you bother defining it to see where he went with it or do you just assume that he was going to shout “AH HA!! so what part of shall not be infringed don’t you understand!!!” EVERYTHING is subject to interpretation. The ten commandments are subject to interpretation otherwise “thou shalt not kill” would leave no room for carrying a gun in self defense. I don’t know, maybe Cable IS way out there and thinks that all guns laws are unconstitutional regardless of WHAT the supreme court says but he has acknowledged limits to the second amendment. Like I said. The gun rights side of the debate has won for the time being and perhaps in 6 or 10 or 20 years, another opportunity will arise for the level headed anti-gun folks to show us how rational and moderate they can be. But my guess is that they will try for the AWB or something like it again. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3657 "2014-01-04T07:27:44Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I figured you noticed. So why didn’t you answer? It was a rhetorical question. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3658 "2014-01-04T07:29:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Like I said. The gun rights side of the debate has won for the time being and perhaps in 6 or 10 or 20 years, another opportunity will arise for the level headed anti-gun folks to show us how rational and moderate they can be. But my guess is that they will try for the AWB or something like it again. Ah, that’s my favorite part of these “debates”, when you guys both participate on one side AND declare the winner. Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3659 "2014-01-04T11:43:49Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > It was a rhetorical question. No it wasn’t. I gave you a big hint that it wasn’t when I asked you a second time. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3660 "2014-01-04T11:51:36Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Ah, that’s my favorite part of these “debates”, when you guys both participate on one side AND declare the winner. > > Hilarious. You think the gun-grabber side won? All they accomplished was uniting the Republicans, pushed independents away, put millions and millions of extra guns on the street, made the AR15 the most popular rifle in America, and vindicated the NRA. None of that had to happen but you gun-grabbers are just so stupid you couldn’t help yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=182) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=184)