# Stupid Gun news of the day (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729 "2013-01-29T19:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 193
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3841 "2014-01-25T16:49:42Z")
Why aren’t you claiming yourself to be a … um, what would be the word? … _hoplophile_, yes, that’s it. Something like a pedophile but with a different fixation. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3842 "2014-01-25T17:10:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You keep trying to convince yourself of this, yet it is completely wrong. Negligent homicide is a crime, and has no element of intent at all. > > [Negligent homicide - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligent_homicide) Did you read the part where I wrote (and you quoted) that it usually requires “one of two”? ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3843 "2014-01-25T17:39:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This is really all you need to say, because it is the crux of the issue. Gun douchebags are so fixated on their amulets that they readily consign any victims of their anti-anxiety placebo object to meaningless status. You dumbass, I said **BY ITSELF** the number is meaningless, because IN CONTEXT that number **BY ITSELF** doesn’t do a damn thing to support your claim that simple gun safety rules “routinely fail”. But no, rather than address it like an honest person, instead you take the typical anti-gun extremist route, and twist things around to avoid having to face the truth of what I posted. You are simply intellectually dishonest because you are an extremist on this issue. > [@](#): > > The reason why I don’t give a fuck about **Lumpy’s** interjection is that I’ve been down the “pools/cars/skateboards” argument dozens of times. I bet you’ve never once actually addressed those arguments head on, rebutted any of their points, and instead danced around it like you are here. > [@](#): > > In terms of straight comparisons like relative risk, the issue is - in part - the denominator. You seem, so far anyway, to understand that much at least. Our problem will be that the denominator isn’t known, and I assume that it’s rather low. Aaaaand there’s your first problem. You make a sweeping matter of fact claim…using a baseless assumption as its foundation. What reason do you have to support your assumption that the denominator is “rather low”? Frankly, I can’t see any valid reason for it. There is going to be well over 1 million people every day handling/interacting with firearms, just going by numbers of armed police and security guards in the country. There are something like 30-40 million people who go hunting every year. Millions more who just go target shooting (NSSF analysis says roughly 40 million target shooters per year). Then there are all the niche shooting sports, which at this point the number of them doesn’t even matter because I’ve made my point - that 48 injuries a day/17,000 a year is truly a wholly insignificant number in comparison. It is just laughable that you think 48/day, 17,000/year by itself shows simple gun safety rules “routinely fail”, and that it represents a good justification for more gun control. > [@](#): > > The second issue is going to be what that denominator represents. I say that it largely consists of hobby activities and, as I said above, a placebo that people use to self-medicate problems with anxiety. More assumptions and blatant anti-gun owner extremism. You’ve got nothing substantial supporting you so far. I’ve already demonstrated that the number of daily _professional_ gun users by themselves shows that the number of accidental gun injuries is _amazingly low_ in comparison. Add in all the hobbyists you go on and on about, and the accidental gun injury rate drops even more significantly. In other words, you’ve still got _nothing_ to support your claim or arguments. > [@](#): > > In other words, most of the gun douchebags in our country are just pissing themselves with fear Says the one ignorantly and baselessly promulgating fears about hobbyist gun owners and the supposed ineffectiveness of gun safety rules (which I’ve shown to be a crock of shit). :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > and have guns so that they can shoot kids who are just turning around in their driveway, are coming to their door for help, or who are their own kids sneaking back into their house. Incidents which are absurdly rare, both statistically and in hard numbers. > [@](#): > > This second issue is a matter of the relative value of the activities that feed into the denominator. I’m going to estimate their value as low; I anticipate that you’re going to estimate the value as high. I anticipate this because you’re ready to dismiss the butcher’s bill as insignificant. Well, of course you’re going to estimate their value as low, because you are an extremist who doesn’t actually care whether your assumptions are valid or not, you just care about trying to make things look as bad as possible for guns and gun owners and will make your assumptions accordingly. Me, I prefer having _actual information_. [Target shooting in America](http://issuu.com/nssfpublications/docs/nssf_target_shooting_in_america_rep?e=2322682/5987375) added $23 billion to the nation’s economic activity, and supported 185,000 jobs. Combined with [Hunting in America](http://www.nssf.org/PDF/research/HuntingInAmerica_EconomicForceForConservation.pdf), recreational gun users in these two categories alone added over $110 billion to the economy and supported more than 866,000 jobs. And this is where the majority of the money for nature conservation efforts comes from as well. So, factually, the value of the activities that feed into the denominator are demonstrably not “low”. > [@](#): > > Finally, comparisons to pools, skateboards and other similar sources of potential injury or death are fraught with limitations as analogies because firearms pose markedly distinct differences. Most prominently, people are far less likely to end up injuring bystanders with pools or skateboards. And yet it still remains the case that an order of magnitude more people are sent to the ER each year because of skateboard accidents, than gun accidents, largely in service to recreational activity. Your minor point about being less likely to injure others doesn’t change the fact that accidental gun injuries are still an comparatively insignificant issue that rarely happens relative to the prevalence of gun usage. > [@](#): > > A person isn’t going to drop their skateboard in church in such a fashion that it sends a projectile into someone else’s leg. So what? That is irrelevant to a comparison of number of injuries that show how relatively rare an accidental gun injury is in comparison, and it certainly does nothing to support your claim that simple gun safety rules “routinely fail”. > [@](#): > > Additionally, the approximately 17,000 figure represents accidental injuries associated with firearms. It doesn’t include intentional injuries and it doesn’t include deaths. There were over 80,000 non-fatal firearm injuries of any intent in 2012. And of course, that doesn’t include the approximately 30,000 fatal incidents involving firearms. So you’re gonna shift the goal posts to avoid having to support your claim that simple gun safety rules “routinely fail”? Talk about completely breaking the context as well. > [@](#): > > Gunfucks dismiss this figure as insignificant because they need it to be. It would be nice to see just a touch of humanity in their consideration of the issue, but they cannot even voice a desire to see that be lower because it’s a threat. The power of fear is great, and people respond with desperation when one suggests they face a fear without the rituals they have come to develop to fend them off. This is true even when the person recognizes that the ritual is itself maladaptive. Oh yes, “gunfucks” dismiss that figure as insignificant because they need it to be…oh wait, I almost forgot that I factually demonstrated in this post that your dumbass belief is absolute bullshit. That figure IS insignificant, because something that occurs something like .0001% of the time or so (and is probably even less than that) is pretty much the _definition_ of insignificant. I would like it to be lower, but it may be completely unfeasible to actually do so in reality. But you are stuck in an unwavering anti-gun la-la-land, and pretty much nothing you and other anti-gun extremists have proposed would make any meaningful dent in that number, because gun accidents are already trivially rare compared to the prevalence of gun usage/interaction on a daily/annual basis. Gun accidents are so rare (as I have demonstrated) despite the prevalence of gun usage and gun owners because gun owners are already overwhelmingly safe with their guns, precisely because of simple gun safety rules which routinely prevent accidents from occurring. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3844 "2014-01-25T18:07:12Z")
**Monster104** , something happening 50 times a day is “routine” enough for me. You want to pretend that routine is defined by an incidence rate? Sure… just tell me what incidence rate defines “routine”? Further, you can’t even tell me for sure it doesn’t meet your assuredly arbitrary definition of routine, since you cannot tell me the denominator. You dumb little bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3845 "2014-01-25T18:57:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Did you read the part where I wrote (and you quoted) that it usually requires “one of two”? Leaving a gun where a child can access it is an action. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3846 "2014-01-26T05:24:16Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Monster104** , something happening 50 times a day is “routine” enough for me. You want to pretend that routine is defined by an incidence rate? Sure… just tell me what incidence rate defines “routine”? Further, you can’t even tell me for sure it doesn’t meet your assuredly arbitrary definition of routine, since you cannot tell me the denominator. You dumb little bitch. Don’t late term abortions occur about that frequently? Are they routine? > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Leaving a gun where a child can access it is an action. And depending on the circumstances, that would be considered negligent homicide. I don’t get your point. Like I said, we already have a legal system in place that handles this stuff. Are you under the impression that someone leaves a gun out, their kids shoot each other and the cops say “well try to be more careful next time” I don’t object to gun owners who fuck up going to jail, I object to twisting the current legal rules that have worked well for us for centuries just so that we can create special criminal liability for gun owners. Its not just that you are persecuting gun owners, its that you are undermining the legal system in a nation of laws in order to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3847 "2014-01-26T05:56:13Z")
My god, your arguments are stupid as hell. Increasing the sentence for a particular crime is now “undermining the legal system”, guys. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3848 "2014-01-26T07:54:26Z")
[**Two killed in Maryland mall shooting; motive uncertain**](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-mall-shooting-20140126,0,6842094.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews%2Fnationworld%2Fnation+%28L.A.+Times+-+National+News%29#axzz2rUMXtRkL) > [@](#): > > COLUMBIA, Md. — In the latest burst of violence in a week of fatal shootings in public places, a man wielding a shotgun opened fire Saturday morning in a bustling suburban shopping mall in Maryland, killing two people and sending hundreds of terrified shoppers screaming and racing for cover. > > The motive was unknown and authorities dismissed news reports that tied the killings to a domestic dispute. “We do not know yet what caused the shooting incident,” Howard County Police Chief Bill McMahon told reporters gathered outside the shopping center, known as the Mall in Columbia. > > He identified the victims as two Maryland residents, Brianna Benlolo, 21, of College Park, and Tyler Johnson, 25, of Mount Airy. Both were employees at Zumiez, a skateboard shop on the upper level of the mall. > > \ > > The shooting capped a week of gun violence in public venues. On Monday a student was shot and wounded at Widener University near Philadelphia. The next day, at Purdue University in Indiana, Andrew Boldt, 21, a teaching assistant, was stabbed and shot to death in an engineering building classroom. > > On Friday a student at South Carolina State University, 20-year-old Brandon Robinson, was gunned down outside a dormitory… And so it goes. On and on and on. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3849 "2014-01-26T12:59:10Z")
> [@](#): > > wielding a shotgun opened fire Shotgun. As in this particular shooting had nothing to do with handgun carry, “assault weapons”, or any of the other bugaboos popular with the anti crowd. Nothing short of banning hunting guns would have prevented this. ETA: I don’t suppose the mall banned guns? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3850 "2014-01-26T15:26:59Z")
Oh, well, then; I guess those two dead people don’t even count. Just add them to all the other statistics on top of the, “I guess that’s just the price we have to pay to play with our dangerous toys” pile. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3851 "2014-01-26T15:44:11Z")
Joe Biden told us a shotgun was all we needed. I wonder if he’s gonna back of that claim now. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3852 "2014-01-26T16:48:10Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Monster104** , something happening 50 times a day is “routine” enough for me. Then you’re an idiot for ignoring everything I’ve already explained about why that is so absurdly stupid. But you’ve long established that repeating stupidity is enough for you to claim a valid argument, so perhaps I was just naive you would address your own ignorance for a change. But, sadly, your ignorance appears to be both willful, and _truly_ routine. > [@](#): > > You want to pretend that routine is defined by an incidence rate? I don’t have to pretend shit, that’s what “routine” IS: something with such a high and regular incidence rate that it is the normal expected outcome. You know what something with a .00001% or less rate is called? **Deviance.** Language has different words for a good reason, imbecile. > [@](#): > > Sure… just tell me what incidence rate defines “routine”? An incidence rate a hell of a lot greater than .00001%, as I’ve already explained. Because .00001% is deviating from the norm, not establishing a routine. > [@](#): > > Further, you can’t even tell me for sure it doesn’t meet your assuredly arbitrary definition of routine, since you cannot tell me the denominator. You dumb little bitch. All you’ve demonstrated here is a complete lack of critical thinking and comprehension, considering I factually established a minimum denominator of 60+ million a year, which was plenty good enough to show how full of shit you are. Since it means 17,000 a year is not routine, it is deviating from routine. You’ve got things so backwards your ass has become your mouth, you dumb little bitch. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3853 "2014-01-26T17:00:08Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Oh, well, then; I guess those two dead people don’t even count. Just add them to all the other statistics on top of the, “I guess that’s just the price we have to pay to play with our dangerous toys” pile. Um, no, it’s “That’s the price _other people_ have to pay so \*we \*can play …” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3854 "2014-01-26T21:31:02Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > My god, your arguments are stupid as hell. > > Increasing the sentence for a particular crime is now “undermining the legal system”, guys. Its not just changing the sentence for a particular crime. Its changing the standards of what constitutes murder. Remember when I asked you about drunk drivers that end up killing people? You said you felt they should be treated similarly. Its bad enough that you want to twist the system to achieve a desired result (persecuting negligent gun owners as if they were murderers), you end up distorting the entire system in an effort to make your desired result make sense. Heck you even posited that someone who left their keys in the car should be criminally liable if some kids go joyriding and kill someone (a lot of people start the car and leave the keys in the ignition to warm up the car on a cold day, others just feel safe enough in their neighborhoods that the ignition (or maybe the glove compartment are convenient places to leave the keys). Once again, we have laws in place that covers this stuff. I think almost every state has at least a 20 year maximum sentence and several states have a 50 year maximum sentence for negligent of unintentional homicide. What you are proposing is a 20 year minimum sentence with a maximum sentence of life in prison for negligent and or unintentional homicide. And in the process you may be violating the constitution and putting people who were negligent in jail for longer than rapists. Its just a bad idea born of a desire to punish negligent gun owners in a way that you wouldn’t punish negligence in almost any other circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3855 "2014-01-26T21:36:29Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Oh, well, then; I guess those two dead people don’t even count. Just add them to all the other statistics on top of the, “I guess that’s just the price we have to pay to play with our dangerous toys” pile. And is there any benefit other than play associated with the private ownership of guns? I mean this was a shotgun, about the last thing that anyone wants to ban (if they are open to the idea of ANY guns remaining in private hands), are you also in the “ban all private ownership of guns” brigade? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3856 "2014-01-26T22:51:14Z")
I’m in the – if you want to have a conversation about gun violence, as you claim you do, you can’t start your end of the conversation with, “yeah but,” every time – brigade. This mall shooting is just another in a seemingly endless series of shootings in this country. It should be discussed, but we can’t discuss it because this time it was a shotgun and not the same kind of gun that was used that last time some gun-fuck decided go off the deep end. You have an instant out every time this happens: “oh you just want to ban all guns.” Fine, then I’ll just have to come back with, “you don’t give a shit about all the dead people,” rebuttal. At least my argument concerns itself with actual living beings. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3857 "2014-01-27T00:32:09Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I’m in the – if you want to have a conversation about gun violence, as you claim you do, you can’t start your end of the conversation with, “yeah but,” every time – brigade. > > This mall shooting is just another in a seemingly endless series of shootings in this country. It should be discussed, but we can’t discuss it because this time it was a shotgun and not the same kind of gun that was used that last time some gun-fuck decided go off the deep end. > > You have an instant out every time this happens: “oh you just want to ban all guns.” > > Fine, then I’ll just have to come back with, “you don’t give a shit about all the dead people,” rebuttal. At least my argument concerns itself with actual living beings. Well then what do you propose that would actually reduce the incidence of these shootings? It isn’t like gun owners **like** these killings, but I can’t think of anything _but_ the complete abolition of firearms that would stand a chance- and even that wouldn’t work as well as some hope. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3858 "2014-01-27T03:08:19Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I’m in the – if you want to have a conversation about gun violence, as you claim you do, you can’t start your end of the conversation with, “yeah but,” every time – brigade. Where do I make excuses for the mall shooter? Where do I say “yeah but?” You’re the one that portrayed gun murders as the consequence of our trite desire to have things to play with. So I called you on it. If your attitude is that gun deaths are simply the result of folks who aren’t willing to give up their toys, then perhaps you are the one that isn’t ready to have a conversation about guns. > [@](#): > > This mall shooting is just another in a seemingly endless series of shootings in this country. It should be discussed, but we can’t discuss it because this time it was a shotgun and not the same kind of gun that was used that last time some gun-fuck decided go off the deep end. No, I bring up the fact that its a shotgun and noone wants to ban those except for those in favor of total bans and folks that use language like yours seem to think bans are the answer. > [@](#): > > You have an instant out every time this happens: “oh you just want to ban all guns.” So what is your wonderful idea that doesn’t involve banning guns? This thread is 78 pages long, maybe you posted it and I missed it. > [@](#): > > Fine, then I’ll just have to come back with, “you don’t give a shit about all the dead people,” rebuttal. At least my argument concerns itself with actual living beings. It wasn’t your rebuttal, it was your opening line. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3859 "2014-01-27T03:17:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its not just changing the sentence for a particular crime. Its changing the standards of what constitutes murder. > > Remember when I asked you about drunk drivers that end up killing people? You said you felt they should be treated similarly. Its bad enough that you want to twist the system to achieve a desired result (persecuting negligent gun owners as if they were murderers), you end up distorting the entire system in an effort to make your desired result make sense. This is getting into hijack territory, but I strongly disagree with you that it would be a distortion of the system to recognize certain actions (drunk driving, leaving loaded firearms unsecured, etc.) as sufficiently negligent as to cross the line into actual intent to cause nonspecific harm. I view both of those actions as fundamentally similar to placing an armed, lethal booby trap–which also, in defiance of current law in most states, should be construed as intent to murder in my opinion. Perhaps we just need a new category of felony murder–“involuntary manslaughter” doesn’t seem to me to adequately cover actions that are grossly reckless and negligent AND have a disproportionately high chance of causing mayhem. Hell, the PA code only defines booby traps as reckless endangerment, a 2nd-degree misdemeanor, as far as I can tell. That’s just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729/3860 "2014-01-27T03:20:09Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Well then what do you propose that would actually reduce the incidence of these shootings? It isn’t like gun owners **like** these killings, but I can’t think of anything _but_ the complete abolition of firearms that would stand a chance- and even that wouldn’t work as well as some hope. As much as it’s also a stupid argument badly used, better available mental health care would be a great start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=192) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-gun-news-of-the-day-part-1/648729.md?page=194)